Two Trees' Land Use Counsel's Response to CB2 Land Use Committee Member’s Open Letter

 

The following is a response from Kenneth Fisher, the Two Trees’ Land Use Counsel, who emailed us the below letter in response to Andrew Stengel’s open letter about the Dock Street Dumbo development posted earlier this week. As a forum to provide all sides of Dumbo-related issues, we’ll post the letter in full, but as stated in the earlier post, the content and opinions expressed in the letter do not necessarily reflect the views of nor are they an endorsement against (or for) the project by DumboNYC. Thank you to all sides for providing their take on this controversial topic. We hope they provide the community with various viewpoints allowing us to have an objective take on Dock St Dumbo.


As Two Trees’ Land Use Counsel, one of the consultants to whom Andrew Stengel refers in his open letter, I’m surprised he didn’t share any of these concerns when he came over to say hello to me at the City Council hearing on the Dock Street plan. It’s not that I don’t understand the opponents’ frustration with the approval process. What I don’t appreciate is the attitude that their failure at every step leading up to the City Council means that the process is flawed – the fact is that their argument is unpersuasive because other people who review the actual, accurate, proposal consistently don’t see things their way.

[Please click the link to view full letter.]

Here’s what led up to the Council hearing: The Community Board approved the project 30-7, the first time they have ever supported a Two Trees zoning application in 25 years. The Borough President approved the proposed zoning although he recommended a different building form which would have been even taller than the Walentas proposal. The City Planning Commission approved the plan with a small reduction in height by a vote of 9-2; even the two ‘no’ votes supported a building twice the height of what Andrew had proposed at the community board.

The reason for this was captured by the Observer’s Eliot Brown in his report on the public hearing: “At the City Council on May 21, members had to interrupt the Walentas family’s architect midway through a presentation to find just which building on a 3-D model was being proposed” because the building is entirely contextual and reflects the right relationship between the Brooklyn Bridge and the massive Gair-Sweeney buildings which surround it. politickerny.com/3714/dock-street-turns-council-inside-out

Having had their inaccurate renderings and arguments debunked by the Brooklyn Paper and the Brooklyn Daily Eagle, opponents are like Chico Marx in Duck Soup, crying out, “Who you gonna believe, me or your own eyes?”

So, desperate opponents have now taken to throwing mud at Two Trees, the School Construction Authority and the City Council. But they can’t obscure that fact that their opposition campaign is funded and led by many (not all) who care mostly about losing their private views or that the school space being donated by Two Trees would otherwise cost the City millions of dollars to acquire and build. Whatever the flaws in the process, they aren’t enough to justify depriving the neighborhood of additional housing (including some for low income families), a middle school for 300 students, jobs, more retail activity, and parking for residents and visitors to Brooklyn Bridge Park. Dock Street DUMBO should be judged on its merits – and the fact that project opponents have gone so ruthlessly negative tells me only that they know the merits favor approval.

Kenneth K. Fisher

94 Comment

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  • I thought Two Trees was providing (although not in writing) the shell for a school. Not a school. Won’t it still cost the city millions to build the school? I’ve heard quotes like $48 million?
    12,000 people are losing their private views? Please.
    More retail activity? They can’t even fill the space they have on Front St. now.
    More parking? With all the new residents that would be filling the building? Which is being built on an existing parking lot? Let me check the math…
    No one can see the merits. There are none. Enough BS.
    Mr. Fisher, you want me to buy some of that Brooklyn Bridge your selling?

  • I thought Two Trees was providing (although not in writing) the shell for a school. Not a school. Won’t it still cost the city millions to build the school? I’ve heard quotes like $48 million?
    12,000 people are losing their private views? Please.
    More retail activity? They can’t even fill the space they have on Front St. now.
    More parking? With all the new residents that would be filling the building? Which is being built on an existing parking lot? Let me check the math…
    No one can see the merits. There are none. Enough BS.
    Mr. Fisher, you want me to buy some of that Brooklyn Bridge your selling?

  • In the above missive Super-lobbyist can barely contain his contempt for the vast majority of New Yorkers who oppose Dock St Dumbo as currently designed to diminish the Brooklyn Bridge. Another pathetic attempt to paint the overwhelming popular opposition to this project as 70 Washington owners. We can expect more of these prior to the June 10th vote.

    Straight from Jeb’s play book. Oh wait, likely Super Lobbyist wrote the play book for Jeb! But everyone knows that. When you’re paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to jam through a painful screwing to the people of New York, you have to add value by being both strategic and tactical.

    Super Lobbyist and Jeb pray that a few distracted or “malleable” City Councilmembers will fall for their ploy. They’ll be working the phones and propaganda machine overtime and Jeb’s gotta get out the checkbook again.

  • In the above missive Super-lobbyist can barely contain his contempt for the vast majority of New Yorkers who oppose Dock St Dumbo as currently designed to diminish the Brooklyn Bridge. Another pathetic attempt to paint the overwhelming popular opposition to this project as 70 Washington owners. We can expect more of these prior to the June 10th vote.

    Straight from Jeb’s play book. Oh wait, likely Super Lobbyist wrote the play book for Jeb! But everyone knows that. When you’re paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to jam through a painful screwing to the people of New York, you have to add value by being both strategic and tactical.

    Super Lobbyist and Jeb pray that a few distracted or “malleable” City Councilmembers will fall for their ploy. They’ll be working the phones and propaganda machine overtime and Jeb’s gotta get out the checkbook again.

  • Uh, this retail space he’s talking about… isn’t that supposed to be a school?

  • Uh, this retail space he’s talking about… isn’t that supposed to be a school?

  • Dear Mr. Fisher.

    I am simply a worried NYC resident. First, the bridge is one of our Nations last standing monuments and the building will in FACT completely destroy its view from every angle, that is a simple fact.

    Depriving the neighborhood of additional housing? I do believe that it is only depriving Two Trees of more income, there is plenty of housing in Dumbo.

    A middle school for 300 students? There are maybe 10 kids in that age range living in Dumbo and we all know that the school is simply a tool for Two Trees to look like they are humanitarians.

    More retail activity? Seriously? Two Trees has been trying to lease spaces for a good five years with no success and more empty spaces are a good thing?

    Parking for residents and visitors to Brooklyn Bridge Park? Everyone that I know that lives in Dumbo has a space and the parks are always full on weekends with no traffic so this simply sounds like more greed.

    The building is wrong sir, you are obviously being paid a great deal of money to work on this but you would also be a part in the destruction of a landmark and a landmark area.

    Shame on you all.

  • Dear Mr. Fisher.

    I am simply a worried NYC resident. First, the bridge is one of our Nations last standing monuments and the building will in FACT completely destroy its view from every angle, that is a simple fact.

    Depriving the neighborhood of additional housing? I do believe that it is only depriving Two Trees of more income, there is plenty of housing in Dumbo.

    A middle school for 300 students? There are maybe 10 kids in that age range living in Dumbo and we all know that the school is simply a tool for Two Trees to look like they are humanitarians.

    More retail activity? Seriously? Two Trees has been trying to lease spaces for a good five years with no success and more empty spaces are a good thing?

    Parking for residents and visitors to Brooklyn Bridge Park? Everyone that I know that lives in Dumbo has a space and the parks are always full on weekends with no traffic so this simply sounds like more greed.

    The building is wrong sir, you are obviously being paid a great deal of money to work on this but you would also be a part in the destruction of a landmark and a landmark area.

    Shame on you all.

  • Mr Fisher, how come Two Trees had to collude with the SCA if this is such a great idea?

    Mr Fisher, how come you don’t make mention of the local neighborhood associations who oppose the project, but rather mention rubber-stamping city agencies and ‘boards’ that aren’t elected?

    Oh, don’t both answering, you are a PAID lobbyist working for Two Trees.

  • Mr Fisher, how come Two Trees had to collude with the SCA if this is such a great idea?

    Mr Fisher, how come you don’t make mention of the local neighborhood associations who oppose the project, but rather mention rubber-stamping city agencies and ‘boards’ that aren’t elected?

    Oh, don’t both answering, you are a PAID lobbyist working for Two Trees.

  • anon, Children are now seen as a product which can be used to buy things like zoning changes.

  • anon, Children are now seen as a product which can be used to buy things like zoning changes.

  • I’m tellin’ ya… these responses/letters/spams directly from TT and associates are really starting to piss me off.

  • I’m tellin’ ya… these responses/letters/spams directly from TT and associates are really starting to piss me off.

  • NOOC:

    It’s been from the hired Chief Minister of Propaganda all along. The entire play book. Played the system/pols like a Stradivarius.

    That’s what you get for several hundred thousand dollars.

    But they must be a bit worried that they don’t have the votes for Super Lobbyist to step out from behind the curtain at this point.

    Could also be some self-advertising/chest pounding now that the process will be concluding soon. Rent-a-gun again available.

  • NOOC:

    It’s been from the hired Chief Minister of Propaganda all along. The entire play book. Played the system/pols like a Stradivarius.

    That’s what you get for several hundred thousand dollars.

    But they must be a bit worried that they don’t have the votes for Super Lobbyist to step out from behind the curtain at this point.

    Could also be some self-advertising/chest pounding now that the process will be concluding soon. Rent-a-gun again available.

  • Dear Kenny,

    It is no surprise that you have taken the same tack as to manner in which the Dock Street Dumbo project was presented to the public, i.e., you have stated fact, added fiction and subtracted by omission. Or, as a popular late-night fake news host would say: truthiness.

    It is true that I saw you at the City Council hearing. You walked by me—I did not approach you—and I indeed shook your hand and said hello. So, don’t be surprised—when you pass by me next—if I say hello again. It is no matter to me you are the pack leader of the high-priced lawyer-lobbyist-public relations retinue. I believe civility is important.

    There is nothing negative in my presentation of the facts around the lack of full disclosure around the site selection process for Dock Street Dumbo. You seem to suggest that the products of a FOIL request and disclosure of campaign fundraising are negative. I am sorry you feel threatened by open government and disclosure fundraising activity.

    In the interest of openness, I offer the readers of dumbonyc the story of our interaction at the Borough President’s public hearing. It is more evidence of the disingenuous posture of the developers and their representatives.

    I approached you at that hearing to ask what bound you to build a school at the Dock Street site. You said that your clients would be glad to sign a restrictive covenenat binding them to build a school at the site if the opposition gave up. As I said that night, if it is your clients’ intention to build a school, why not just sign such an agreement?

    Instead of our virtual Lincoln-Douglas-style good government debate, I suggest the real thing. Let’s debate Dock Street Dumbo in public. You and a high-ranking official of SCA against me and soon. I have three conditions:

    (1), make public all records of negotiations with SCA prior to May 20, 2008;
    (2), disclose all intermediary or bundling activity by your clients, David and Jed Walentas, on behalf of members of the New York City Council from 2007 to present;
    (3) disclose all contributions by Two Trees or by its principles to 501(c)3-desginated organizations based in New York City from 2007 to present.

    If Dock Street Dumbo is so wonderful, why do your clients need to spend untold sums of money to try to convince us?

    Andrew Stengel

  • Dear Kenny,

    It is no surprise that you have taken the same tack as to manner in which the Dock Street Dumbo project was presented to the public, i.e., you have stated fact, added fiction and subtracted by omission. Or, as a popular late-night fake news host would say: truthiness.

    It is true that I saw you at the City Council hearing. You walked by me—I did not approach you—and I indeed shook your hand and said hello. So, don’t be surprised—when you pass by me next—if I say hello again. It is no matter to me you are the pack leader of the high-priced lawyer-lobbyist-public relations retinue. I believe civility is important.

    There is nothing negative in my presentation of the facts around the lack of full disclosure around the site selection process for Dock Street Dumbo. You seem to suggest that the products of a FOIL request and disclosure of campaign fundraising are negative. I am sorry you feel threatened by open government and disclosure fundraising activity.

    In the interest of openness, I offer the readers of dumbonyc the story of our interaction at the Borough President’s public hearing. It is more evidence of the disingenuous posture of the developers and their representatives.

    I approached you at that hearing to ask what bound you to build a school at the Dock Street site. You said that your clients would be glad to sign a restrictive covenenat binding them to build a school at the site if the opposition gave up. As I said that night, if it is your clients’ intention to build a school, why not just sign such an agreement?

    Instead of our virtual Lincoln-Douglas-style good government debate, I suggest the real thing. Let’s debate Dock Street Dumbo in public. You and a high-ranking official of SCA against me and soon. I have three conditions:

    (1), make public all records of negotiations with SCA prior to May 20, 2008;
    (2), disclose all intermediary or bundling activity by your clients, David and Jed Walentas, on behalf of members of the New York City Council from 2007 to present;
    (3) disclose all contributions by Two Trees or by its principles to 501(c)3-desginated organizations based in New York City from 2007 to present.

    If Dock Street Dumbo is so wonderful, why do your clients need to spend untold sums of money to try to convince us?

    Andrew Stengel

  • Andrew: Much respect to you my brother.

    You have both the cojones, the logic and the facts to stand up against the corrupt proce$$–including the excellent speech you gave at the disgraceful CB vote when Councilwoman James’s appointees rubberstamped her highly questionable/suspect Two Trees cheerleading. I’d love to see Councilwoman NIMBY James support such a project in her own district.

    Super Lobbyist won’t have the same cojones to meet your conditions for a debate. He’s sticking to his playbook hoping to hoodwink/influence/”incentivize” a few wavering City Councilmembers to come over to the dark side.

  • Andrew: Much respect to you my brother.

    You have both the cojones, the logic and the facts to stand up against the corrupt proce$$–including the excellent speech you gave at the disgraceful CB vote when Councilwoman James’s appointees rubberstamped her highly questionable/suspect Two Trees cheerleading. I’d love to see Councilwoman NIMBY James support such a project in her own district.

    Super Lobbyist won’t have the same cojones to meet your conditions for a debate. He’s sticking to his playbook hoping to hoodwink/influence/”incentivize” a few wavering City Councilmembers to come over to the dark side.

  • Andrew, why do you ignore the untold sums of money being funneled into Yassky’s campaign by the uber rich residents of 70 W. and 30 M. to name a few. Is it because Yassky is your boss and patron? Why do you ignore the overwhelming vote in favor by your own community board. Why do you and your rather loud com padres find your selves at odds with the best interest of Brooklyn. What makes you right and all your fellow board members and the people they represent wrong.
    I think I remember you from the Community board hearing and if I’m not mistaken you said: if Walentas says he’s going to build a school you had faith that he would do so. You said that several times. Most of your fellow loud voices of the wrongheaded opposition are forcing the idea that TT is engaged in a bait and switch.
    This is another example of the kind of tactics being used in this campaign of smear and lie against this project and the public good it brings. I’ve grown quite familiar with the tone of the rhetoric over this past year. It’s been a real spectacle. Spewing out things you all know are ridiculous on their face and now you slander with the innuendo of wrong doing the hard working public servants at the SCA who knew a good deal when they saw it. They told us from the beginning the reason we were getting this school was because it was being given to us. Otherwise they have no money for us. I believe the term used was “zero dollars.” And although Yassky had years to find a way to provide the neighborhood in which he resides with a school, he failed to do so despite numerous opportunities. This is what leads most of us to the conclusion that he was never serious in his efforts and that his promises were empty. His bosses (contributors) do not want a school with all those loud smelly middle school kids on their streets. For some reason however private schools are ok.
    In my opinion and in the opinion of many many people who have studied this project: the building is perfectly in context, quite reasonable and in fact the only views lost are strictly private views. While a great loss both financial and “emotional”, let these private citizens seek remedy in court, but this issue should not shape public policy. As public servants, Andrew and David, I would expect you to understand the importance of the distinction between public and private.
    Views from the bridge are not protected and as I have walked over and driven over that bridge millions of times in the lingo of my 4 year old, I would deeply dispute the way the impact of the taller portion is being characterized by the same people who have shown all thru this process that they will say …anything…to stop this project.
    The change ain’t that bad and in fact some would argue the vista from the bridge from some angles is improved. People are entitled to their opinions and nobody made you guys the keepers of the absolute truth.

  • Andrew, why do you ignore the untold sums of money being funneled into Yassky’s campaign by the uber rich residents of 70 W. and 30 M. to name a few. Is it because Yassky is your boss and patron? Why do you ignore the overwhelming vote in favor by your own community board. Why do you and your rather loud com padres find your selves at odds with the best interest of Brooklyn. What makes you right and all your fellow board members and the people they represent wrong.
    I think I remember you from the Community board hearing and if I’m not mistaken you said: if Walentas says he’s going to build a school you had faith that he would do so. You said that several times. Most of your fellow loud voices of the wrongheaded opposition are forcing the idea that TT is engaged in a bait and switch.
    This is another example of the kind of tactics being used in this campaign of smear and lie against this project and the public good it brings. I’ve grown quite familiar with the tone of the rhetoric over this past year. It’s been a real spectacle. Spewing out things you all know are ridiculous on their face and now you slander with the innuendo of wrong doing the hard working public servants at the SCA who knew a good deal when they saw it. They told us from the beginning the reason we were getting this school was because it was being given to us. Otherwise they have no money for us. I believe the term used was “zero dollars.” And although Yassky had years to find a way to provide the neighborhood in which he resides with a school, he failed to do so despite numerous opportunities. This is what leads most of us to the conclusion that he was never serious in his efforts and that his promises were empty. His bosses (contributors) do not want a school with all those loud smelly middle school kids on their streets. For some reason however private schools are ok.
    In my opinion and in the opinion of many many people who have studied this project: the building is perfectly in context, quite reasonable and in fact the only views lost are strictly private views. While a great loss both financial and “emotional”, let these private citizens seek remedy in court, but this issue should not shape public policy. As public servants, Andrew and David, I would expect you to understand the importance of the distinction between public and private.
    Views from the bridge are not protected and as I have walked over and driven over that bridge millions of times in the lingo of my 4 year old, I would deeply dispute the way the impact of the taller portion is being characterized by the same people who have shown all thru this process that they will say …anything…to stop this project.
    The change ain’t that bad and in fact some would argue the vista from the bridge from some angles is improved. People are entitled to their opinions and nobody made you guys the keepers of the absolute truth.

  • DaVoyager,

    In all fairness, please provide the evidence of the ‘untold sums of money’, you keep repeating this claim and IMHO it makes you look bad without any evidence. I understand you want a school, you should just stick to that point, unless you have evidence about the money claim. The opposition did their homework.

  • DaVoyager,

    In all fairness, please provide the evidence of the ‘untold sums of money’, you keep repeating this claim and IMHO it makes you look bad without any evidence. I understand you want a school, you should just stick to that point, unless you have evidence about the money claim. The opposition did their homework.

  • i hope they build a resturant actually worth eating there. dumbo dining choices suck.

  • i hope they build a resturant actually worth eating there. dumbo dining choices suck.

  • Andrew,

    Can you give us all a brief summary of how you came to be appointed by Councilman Yassky to the CB #2? Are there any connections we should know about? Have you or your family members contributed to Mr. Yassky’s current campaign or in the past? What are you aspiring to? Fixing public schools in our neighborhood or higher office?

    As an example of conflicts with the opposition that haven’t been fully disclosed – [name redacted], who waved the 12,000 signature petitions at the various hearings, has had his viewed apartment at 30 Main Street on the market for a year and half for $. Public records show he paid $ for is less than 4 years ago. The same [name redacted] was listed as a sponsor for a Yassky fundraiser last month. Any appearance of conflict here?

    There is more conflicts to disclose. Shall I provide more details?

    Let’s be fair Andrew. You were recently hired by Albany politicians to clean up their corrupt system. They are paying you $$ to clean up their mess. How independent will/can you be? Are you part of the machine or going to clean it up?

    A reply would be appreciated.

    Sincerely.

  • Andrew,

    Can you give us all a brief summary of how you came to be appointed by Councilman Yassky to the CB #2? Are there any connections we should know about? Have you or your family members contributed to Mr. Yassky’s current campaign or in the past? What are you aspiring to? Fixing public schools in our neighborhood or higher office?

    As an example of conflicts with the opposition that haven’t been fully disclosed – [name redacted], who waved the 12,000 signature petitions at the various hearings, has had his viewed apartment at 30 Main Street on the market for a year and half for $. Public records show he paid $ for is less than 4 years ago. The same [name redacted] was listed as a sponsor for a Yassky fundraiser last month. Any appearance of conflict here?

    There is more conflicts to disclose. Shall I provide more details?

    Let’s be fair Andrew. You were recently hired by Albany politicians to clean up their corrupt system. They are paying you $$ to clean up their mess. How independent will/can you be? Are you part of the machine or going to clean it up?

    A reply would be appreciated.

    Sincerely.

  • I call bullshit on the notion that Yassky has received from DUMBO residents anywhere near the amount of money Quinn has received from the Walentas family. The data is all at nyccfb.info. A long post I wrote to this effect disappeared from the comment queue at BHB and I did not save a backup.

    Seriously, davoyager, go to nyccfb.info and post the names and amounts of money from the residents you allege have somehow acted illegally (as opposed to the donations from Two Trees/Walentas?)

    I don’t know any of the people directly involved with the project, and generally support development in the neighborhood (and was widely assailed for opposing the landmark district last year), but this sort of character assassination has to stop. As far as I can tell, Yassky has received the largest amounts of money in 11201 from people living on Willow Place and Columbia Heights. Quinn? From 1 Main Street and the offices of Two Trees LLC.

    davoyager: post the names and amounts or drop this attack.

  • I call bullshit on the notion that Yassky has received from DUMBO residents anywhere near the amount of money Quinn has received from the Walentas family. The data is all at nyccfb.info. A long post I wrote to this effect disappeared from the comment queue at BHB and I did not save a backup.

    Seriously, davoyager, go to nyccfb.info and post the names and amounts of money from the residents you allege have somehow acted illegally (as opposed to the donations from Two Trees/Walentas?)

    I don’t know any of the people directly involved with the project, and generally support development in the neighborhood (and was widely assailed for opposing the landmark district last year), but this sort of character assassination has to stop. As far as I can tell, Yassky has received the largest amounts of money in 11201 from people living on Willow Place and Columbia Heights. Quinn? From 1 Main Street and the offices of Two Trees LLC.

    davoyager: post the names and amounts or drop this attack.

  • There are people that have interests on both sides – and I will concede that there are fair points raised on both sides.

    I will say that *most* of the opposition would be fine with Dock Street if it were not so tall.
    Is that really so hostile?

    Carlo says we should try to negotiate the best deal we can, that the estimates seem high to him, but how can we do that when TT, SCA and DOE are making this impossible? TT’s says it needs this height to cover the costs of the school. Can this be demonstrated. It is not appropriate, in my opinion, for a private interest to make massive returns by leveraging a public school.

    The reason why this current proposal has a school in it all is due to the opposition in the first place, and wanting an open public process is not asking too much. It’s responsible and necessary to bring this proposal somewhere better.

  • There are people that have interests on both sides – and I will concede that there are fair points raised on both sides.

    I will say that *most* of the opposition would be fine with Dock Street if it were not so tall.
    Is that really so hostile?

    Carlo says we should try to negotiate the best deal we can, that the estimates seem high to him, but how can we do that when TT, SCA and DOE are making this impossible? TT’s says it needs this height to cover the costs of the school. Can this be demonstrated. It is not appropriate, in my opinion, for a private interest to make massive returns by leveraging a public school.

    The reason why this current proposal has a school in it all is due to the opposition in the first place, and wanting an open public process is not asking too much. It’s responsible and necessary to bring this proposal somewhere better.

  • I don’t understand why people are in opposition to this project – affordable housing & a middle school sounds good to me. I think people need to reevaluate their priorities and not get so worked up about something that will be a positive addition to our community.

  • I don’t understand why people are in opposition to this project – affordable housing & a middle school sounds good to me. I think people need to reevaluate their priorities and not get so worked up about something that will be a positive addition to our community.

  • Liz,
    Do your homework. You’re getting in pretty late in the game to make such a naive statement.

  • Liz,
    Do your homework. You’re getting in pretty late in the game to make such a naive statement.

  • I’m with Liz. I came across this site and have to say the project sounds great; though controversial to say the least. Why so much vitriol and hate? Especially when it’s been approved by the Community Board (resoundingly, no?), the Boro President and the Planning Board.

  • I’m with Liz. I came across this site and have to say the project sounds great; though controversial to say the least. Why so much vitriol and hate? Especially when it’s been approved by the Community Board (resoundingly, no?), the Boro President and the Planning Board.

  • Liz and Boyo, are you asking someone to summarize all the issues for you?

    There is a ton of information out there, NYTimes articles, on this blog you are posting to, and etc.. This is kind of off topic…

  • Liz and Boyo, are you asking someone to summarize all the issues for you?

    There is a ton of information out there, NYTimes articles, on this blog you are posting to, and etc.. This is kind of off topic…

  • If you get Liz and Boyo together you get Bozo!

  • If you get Liz and Boyo together you get Bozo!

  • Here come the sock puppets!! Yay!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet)

  • Here come the sock puppets!! Yay!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet)

  • I don’t understand why people are in favor of this project – affordable housing & a middle school sounds like a deception to me. I think people need to reevaluate their priorities and not get so worked up about something that will be a eyesore to our community.

  • I don’t understand why people are in favor of this project – affordable housing & a middle school sounds like a deception to me. I think people need to reevaluate their priorities and not get so worked up about something that will be a eyesore to our community.

  • I’d love to know Carlo (and his Real Estate association) to TT and their paid machine.
    This whole project is murky, suspect and in the best interests of TT. Let’s be clear, even Jed described it as providing a group of “below market rate” apartments in the area. That is such a big favor and sacrifice for NYC that allows them to desecrate our Landmarks????? Paid-for support is fairly transparent and the “supporters” of this project are marched out to shamelessly recite scripted soundbites. For the record, I am a long time public servant who has worked with the most vulnerable populations of children in this city- I am appalled that davoyager would sink to describe ANY child as “smelly” and try to link that to those citizens who question or disagree with this fraud and abuse. Ken Fisher’s response is equally unprofessional, and weak mudslinging. If you don’t have the facts or law on your side, I guess you just throw mud at the local constituents who oppose this unconscionable porkbelly project. Give $44Mil to a neutral group instead of TT and I bet MANY high quality school projects can be created for our children. SCA and others are apparently selling our schools to their pals.

  • I’d love to know Carlo (and his Real Estate association) to TT and their paid machine.
    This whole project is murky, suspect and in the best interests of TT. Let’s be clear, even Jed described it as providing a group of “below market rate” apartments in the area. That is such a big favor and sacrifice for NYC that allows them to desecrate our Landmarks????? Paid-for support is fairly transparent and the “supporters” of this project are marched out to shamelessly recite scripted soundbites. For the record, I am a long time public servant who has worked with the most vulnerable populations of children in this city- I am appalled that davoyager would sink to describe ANY child as “smelly” and try to link that to those citizens who question or disagree with this fraud and abuse. Ken Fisher’s response is equally unprofessional, and weak mudslinging. If you don’t have the facts or law on your side, I guess you just throw mud at the local constituents who oppose this unconscionable porkbelly project. Give $44Mil to a neutral group instead of TT and I bet MANY high quality school projects can be created for our children. SCA and others are apparently selling our schools to their pals.

  • Just for the record nobody is giving TT millions of dollars. Rather it is TT who is giving the city (us) a $40-$50 million gift of real estate to do with what we will. As I’ve said elsewhere, if this were the Guliani administration we would get a swine flu preparedness center.
    Went to nyccfb.info and there are no addresses so your assertions, epc, are without merit.
    Carlo, they totally censored your entry removing names and numbers I would guess under threat of lawsuit, so guys, don’t ask for evidence of campaign moneys flowing from the financially powerful opposition because the censors will not allow that information to be released. Just accept the logic that together the entrenched opposition to this worthy project control a vast pool of wealth rivaling any billionaire’ clout but far more diffuse and so difficult to identify. But do not doubt that in the quiet of their living rooms with this incredible vista in front of them that they would write a check to the politicians who are fighting for their financial interest.

  • Just for the record nobody is giving TT millions of dollars. Rather it is TT who is giving the city (us) a $40-$50 million gift of real estate to do with what we will. As I’ve said elsewhere, if this were the Guliani administration we would get a swine flu preparedness center.
    Went to nyccfb.info and there are no addresses so your assertions, epc, are without merit.
    Carlo, they totally censored your entry removing names and numbers I would guess under threat of lawsuit, so guys, don’t ask for evidence of campaign moneys flowing from the financially powerful opposition because the censors will not allow that information to be released. Just accept the logic that together the entrenched opposition to this worthy project control a vast pool of wealth rivaling any billionaire’ clout but far more diffuse and so difficult to identify. But do not doubt that in the quiet of their living rooms with this incredible vista in front of them that they would write a check to the politicians who are fighting for their financial interest.

  • Note the use of the new buzz word, “context”. Yes, there are other tall buildings nearby, but another one even closer to the bridge is problematic, or at least highly controversial. Build a short building close to the bridge, or build a tall building away from the bridge.

    Anything that comes with a $40mm-$50mm gift is suspect.

  • Note the use of the new buzz word, “context”. Yes, there are other tall buildings nearby, but another one even closer to the bridge is problematic, or at least highly controversial. Build a short building close to the bridge, or build a tall building away from the bridge.

    Anything that comes with a $40mm-$50mm gift is suspect.

  • “Went to nyccfb.info and there are no addresses so your assertions, epc, are without merit.”

    Da, are you seriously making this assertion? Absence of evidence is not evidence. That is like saying, well the government says no UFO’s were recovered at Roswell, so therefore, the government is hiding something.

    “Extraordinary Claims demand Extraordinary evidence”-Carl Sagan.

    Your making yourself look bad, DA. Stick with the school, I like your ‘open letter’. This “The opposition is rich” theory of yours is without any merit. You can’t make the claim unless you have the evidence. The opposition, has done it’s homework. Stick with what you have a point on, not what you cannot prove.

  • “Went to nyccfb.info and there are no addresses so your assertions, epc, are without merit.”

    Da, are you seriously making this assertion? Absence of evidence is not evidence. That is like saying, well the government says no UFO’s were recovered at Roswell, so therefore, the government is hiding something.

    “Extraordinary Claims demand Extraordinary evidence”-Carl Sagan.

    Your making yourself look bad, DA. Stick with the school, I like your ‘open letter’. This “The opposition is rich” theory of yours is without any merit. You can’t make the claim unless you have the evidence. The opposition, has done it’s homework. Stick with what you have a point on, not what you cannot prove.

  • davoyager: since you seem incapable of doing the research to back up your assertions and since a post I did showing just who’s donated to whom has apparently disappeared into the BrooklynHeightsBlog comment filter, I’m going to redo the work, but instead of posting it here, just send it to a few reporters.

    Seriously, you’re accusing your fellow citizens of doing something illegal (donating money to politicians). Back it up or retract it.

  • davoyager: since you seem incapable of doing the research to back up your assertions and since a post I did showing just who’s donated to whom has apparently disappeared into the BrooklynHeightsBlog comment filter, I’m going to redo the work, but instead of posting it here, just send it to a few reporters.

    Seriously, you’re accusing your fellow citizens of doing something illegal (donating money to politicians). Back it up or retract it.

  • DuhVohager at May 29th, 2009 writes:

    Carlo, they totally censored your entry removing names and numbers I would guess under threat of lawsuit, so guys, don’t ask for evidence of campaign moneys flowing from the financially powerful opposition because the censors will not allow that information to be released.

    Hey, Duh: How do you know Carlo’s entry was censored? You guys send emails back and forth comparing your brilliance? Does Carlo/Super Lobbyist write your emails? Or just correct your grammar? I’ve noticed lately you’ve started using its/it’s correctly.

    Stay on message, boys, stay on message! Remember Jeb’s playbook that he spent so much to develop. That’s a good boy. Peformance bonus at the end–but not in writing just like the promised 9 classroom school or the “affordable housing.”

  • DuhVohager at May 29th, 2009 writes:

    Carlo, they totally censored your entry removing names and numbers I would guess under threat of lawsuit, so guys, don’t ask for evidence of campaign moneys flowing from the financially powerful opposition because the censors will not allow that information to be released.

    Hey, Duh: How do you know Carlo’s entry was censored? You guys send emails back and forth comparing your brilliance? Does Carlo/Super Lobbyist write your emails? Or just correct your grammar? I’ve noticed lately you’ve started using its/it’s correctly.

    Stay on message, boys, stay on message! Remember Jeb’s playbook that he spent so much to develop. That’s a good boy. Peformance bonus at the end–but not in writing just like the promised 9 classroom school or the “affordable housing.”

  • To be fair, the name and the amounts were redacted, but for good reason. It is one thing to publicize campaign donations by Two Trees and their affiliates, or the names of city officials/public servants who appear on the FOIL emails. But it is totally in bad form to name a private citizen and his real estate history on this blog. Yes, the “for sale” may be available on the web, and all real estate transactions are available on ACRIS, but the degree of exposure has to be weighed, as does the malicious intent of Carlo in naming the individual in the first place.

    As for the “gift” of the school, at City Council, when Ross Holden of the SCA was unable to provide any answers as to the worth of said gift, or how much the city would save by siting the school at Dock Street, Boy Wonder (Jed) started to rise and answer. But SuperKen practically pushed him down in his chair and suggested that the land was worth $100-200 per sq ft.

    So, am I incorrect to be under the impression that at @45,000 sq ft, the savings are merely $4.5-9 million, and the city would still need $35-39 million in the budget to build out the school?

  • To be fair, the name and the amounts were redacted, but for good reason. It is one thing to publicize campaign donations by Two Trees and their affiliates, or the names of city officials/public servants who appear on the FOIL emails. But it is totally in bad form to name a private citizen and his real estate history on this blog. Yes, the “for sale” may be available on the web, and all real estate transactions are available on ACRIS, but the degree of exposure has to be weighed, as does the malicious intent of Carlo in naming the individual in the first place.

    As for the “gift” of the school, at City Council, when Ross Holden of the SCA was unable to provide any answers as to the worth of said gift, or how much the city would save by siting the school at Dock Street, Boy Wonder (Jed) started to rise and answer. But SuperKen practically pushed him down in his chair and suggested that the land was worth $100-200 per sq ft.

    So, am I incorrect to be under the impression that at @45,000 sq ft, the savings are merely $4.5-9 million, and the city would still need $35-39 million in the budget to build out the school?

  • epc, since when is donating money to politicians illegal? I never used that word.
    Publoser, up to you usual bile spewing tricks. Stow it. Nobody is listening to you. You are attempting to drag us all down to your level but it’s way too stinky in the sewer for me. I prefer, and I think most people here prefer civilized discourse.

  • epc, since when is donating money to politicians illegal? I never used that word.
    Publoser, up to you usual bile spewing tricks. Stow it. Nobody is listening to you. You are attempting to drag us all down to your level but it’s way too stinky in the sewer for me. I prefer, and I think most people here prefer civilized discourse.

  • In my opinion, “civilized discourse” is the problem. It allows slime balls like Fisher and the people he represents to navigate unimpeded. What they say may appear to be civil, but what they do is anything but.

  • In my opinion, “civilized discourse” is the problem. It allows slime balls like Fisher and the people he represents to navigate unimpeded. What they say may appear to be civil, but what they do is anything but.

  • Dock Street DUMBO press conference tomorrow 1130AM at Main/Plymouth w Councilmen Eric Gioia and David Yassky regarding questionable dealings b/w DOE/SCA & Two Trees. See http://tinyurl.com/m3oeto for more detail

  • Dock Street DUMBO press conference tomorrow 1130AM at Main/Plymouth w Councilmen Eric Gioia and David Yassky regarding questionable dealings b/w DOE/SCA & Two Trees. See http://tinyurl.com/m3oeto for more detail

  • Fulton Ferry Res reminds me of a point I wanted to make…

    Why is it that Holden did not have an answer when pressed for more information?

    Is it because he’s incompetent? Or is he hiding something? Or does he truly not know?

    Look, this is supposed to be his JOB, right? How would your boss react if he asked you about a budget for your project and you had nothing to say?

    Did he not think that this issue would be raised? And therefore came unprepared? Incompetent.

    Did he think that if he said he’d have to check that it would be forgotten? Hiding something.

    Does he really not know? Incompetent AND hiding something.

    What’s to be hidden? The fact that they never researched anything because they have a sweetheart deal with Two Trees.

    @Jen, I’m with you… UP YOURS Fisher, Holden, T. James and Walentas. You’ve pushed it and now there’s nothing you can do to save face regardless of the outcome.

  • Fulton Ferry Res reminds me of a point I wanted to make…

    Why is it that Holden did not have an answer when pressed for more information?

    Is it because he’s incompetent? Or is he hiding something? Or does he truly not know?

    Look, this is supposed to be his JOB, right? How would your boss react if he asked you about a budget for your project and you had nothing to say?

    Did he not think that this issue would be raised? And therefore came unprepared? Incompetent.

    Did he think that if he said he’d have to check that it would be forgotten? Hiding something.

    Does he really not know? Incompetent AND hiding something.

    What’s to be hidden? The fact that they never researched anything because they have a sweetheart deal with Two Trees.

    @Jen, I’m with you… UP YOURS Fisher, Holden, T. James and Walentas. You’ve pushed it and now there’s nothing you can do to save face regardless of the outcome.

  • NofC:

    I agree… a lot of the supporters, you ask them very basic questions about budgets / logistics and they act as if you are being so unreasonable.

  • NofC:

    I agree… a lot of the supporters, you ask them very basic questions about budgets / logistics and they act as if you are being so unreasonable.

  • Jen…

    You are correct. Real change comes from not being polite, but from calling out the corrupt.

    They are the same ones who cry about compromise, when their definition of compromise is “My way or the highway”.

    Regardless of outcome, IMHO, this issue should be looked at by the attorney general’s office. The back room deals should have their consequences or else we will shortly find ourselves in a different Brooklyn and City for that matter.

    If approved, then perhaps these people should be made to go bankrupt by defending themselves from their actions.

  • Jen…

    You are correct. Real change comes from not being polite, but from calling out the corrupt.

    They are the same ones who cry about compromise, when their definition of compromise is “My way or the highway”.

    Regardless of outcome, IMHO, this issue should be looked at by the attorney general’s office. The back room deals should have their consequences or else we will shortly find ourselves in a different Brooklyn and City for that matter.

    If approved, then perhaps these people should be made to go bankrupt by defending themselves from their actions.

  • No One, to answer your question, SCA builds schools and as construction finishes, DOE makes decisions about how to “zone” them, what grades to house, etc. In is fairly common for SCA to not be able to answer questions with more than generalized answers, or for the answers to turn out to be incorrect once DOE makes its decisions. Of course, in light of the correspondence made public through FOIL, Holden looks like he is obfuscating, but these types of answers are usually what you get at this stage of the game.

  • No One, to answer your question, SCA builds schools and as construction finishes, DOE makes decisions about how to “zone” them, what grades to house, etc. In is fairly common for SCA to not be able to answer questions with more than generalized answers, or for the answers to turn out to be incorrect once DOE makes its decisions. Of course, in light of the correspondence made public through FOIL, Holden looks like he is obfuscating, but these types of answers are usually what you get at this stage of the game.

  • Someone,

    Could the DOE come back and say either, the space is insufficient, or even that the space would better house DOE administrative offices, then a school? Is there a guarantee that the DOE even has to put a school in the space?

  • Someone,

    Could the DOE come back and say either, the space is insufficient, or even that the space would better house DOE administrative offices, then a school? Is there a guarantee that the DOE even has to put a school in the space?

  • Attorney General? Ok…take a deep breath and find the # for your therapist.

    Sorry you people are going to lose the views from your apartment, but you are, so get over it.

    People who dont have a stake in this know that is what its about. Its obvious. If I lived there I wouldnt want it either. Unfortunately, you dont own the bridge, or the land near it.

  • Attorney General? Ok…take a deep breath and find the # for your therapist.

    Sorry you people are going to lose the views from your apartment, but you are, so get over it.

    People who dont have a stake in this know that is what its about. Its obvious. If I lived there I wouldnt want it either. Unfortunately, you dont own the bridge, or the land near it.

  • bunch of BS. all this whining has nothing to do with the school. you don’t want a building there b/c you think it will look less pretty with the building than without. you could care less about alleged corruption in the system or a school. and this selfish, inflexible, unreasonable and impractical thinking is why you are tolerated but not listened to.

  • bunch of BS. all this whining has nothing to do with the school. you don’t want a building there b/c you think it will look less pretty with the building than without. you could care less about alleged corruption in the system or a school. and this selfish, inflexible, unreasonable and impractical thinking is why you are tolerated but not listened to.

  • Someone, I accept that, except that this project is so highly controversial and already under scrutiny that to not even have a ballpark or gross range, or a “don’t quote me on this” is quite lame.

  • Someone, I accept that, except that this project is so highly controversial and already under scrutiny that to not even have a ballpark or gross range, or a “don’t quote me on this” is quite lame.

  • Matt, yes, the Attorney General’s job is to investigate corruption.

    FYI, my therapist told me so.

    And since you don’t live here, thank you for your input.

  • Matt, yes, the Attorney General’s job is to investigate corruption.

    FYI, my therapist told me so.

    And since you don’t live here, thank you for your input.

  • I’ve had occasion to re-read the Borough President’s report and realized my phrasing was imprecise. I should have said: The Borough President recommended a different building form, although his zoning solution could have permitted a building even taller than the Walentas proposal.

  • I’ve had occasion to re-read the Borough President’s report and realized my phrasing was imprecise. I should have said: The Borough President recommended a different building form, although his zoning solution could have permitted a building even taller than the Walentas proposal.

  • Uh, this retail space he's talking about… isn't that supposed to be a school?

  • Uh, this retail space he's talking about… isn't that supposed to be a school?

  • Pingback: Dumbo NYC, Brooklyn » Archive » New FOIL Docs from SCA Reveal its Own Architect Didn’t Give Dock St. School a Passing Grade in 2007 (DumboNYC.com)

  • Pingback: Dumbo NYC, Brooklyn » Archive » New FOIL Docs from SCA Reveal its Own Architect Didn’t Give Dock St. School a Passing Grade in 2007 (DumboNYC.com)