The New York Times summarizes the latest development on Two Trees Management’s Dock Street Dumbo and the controversy that surrounds the project. “Many among them want a local middle school for their children. But they are not sure they want it badly enough to accept its proposed packaging — an apartment tower that would block views of their neighborhood’s most prized landmark, the Brooklyn Bridge.” We’ve tracking the events surrounding the project in past postings, so many of the details in the NY Times article is not new. However, it brings publicity to the NY area. The article sticks to the facts and doesn’t take a stance, but quotes more opponents of the project (Brooklyn Heights Association, a CB2 member, and a Brooklyn Heights parent). According to Jed Walentas, if the plan moves smoothly through the approval process, the project could be completed by 2012. That means for parents with a 9 year old, they may be able to take advantage of the middle school. Some opponents say that even if a middle school is built, the proposed 300 seat school will not be enough to serve the all the kids in the area.
(Green Desk photo credit: Hiroko Masuike for The New York Times)
A second NY Times article today visits Green Desk, a short-term office space that offers support and services for small businesses at 155 Water Street in Dumbo Brooklyn (previously featured on DumboNYC). These ‘business centers’ or ‘executive suites’ are doing well in the depressed economy, which is ideal for displaced or downsized businesses seeking space without long-term leases.
Another company, Pearl Realty, a Brooklyn-based developer, owns a turn-of-the-20th-century former coffee factory at 155 Water Street in Dumbo, where Miguel McKelvey, the general manager, said $5 million had been invested in refurbishing the building and starting up Green Desk. Jack Guttman, president of Pearl, owns half of Green Desk.
Each of the building’s six floors covers 4,000 square feet and is divided into some 30 offices. These range in size from 25 square feet — one desk in an open cubicle — to a 500-square-foot office that accommodates up to seven people.
Monthly fees for Green Desk’s tenants range from $375 for a one-desk cubicle to $3,500 for the 500-square-foot office; these charges cover Internet access but not phone service, which is extra. Besides Mr. Humphrey, tenants include a calligrapher, a tour operator, an investment manager and a fashion designer.
We’ve received a few email feedback on Green Desk and most tenants there are happy with their space and quality of service provided by Miguel.
{Wondering if a New School in Brooklyn Is Worth Blocking the View, NY Times, 20Jan2009}
{For Tight Times, Office Space on Flexible Terms, NY Times, 20Jan2009}
WHAT MIDDLE SCHOOL KIDS!?!? this is not a middle school kid neighborhood. no one stays here that long, i’ve been seeing it for years. this is a “early to mid 30s, stay for one, maybe two kids, then leave when they are school age or when we run out of space b/c we all live in 2BRs” neighborhood. basically, all kids at this school would be from outside of the direct neighborhood, which means the projects, where they do in fact have middle school aged kids. why is no one focusing on this very important fact?
WHAT MIDDLE SCHOOL KIDS!?!? this is not a middle school kid neighborhood. no one stays here that long, i’ve been seeing it for years. this is a “early to mid 30s, stay for one, maybe two kids, then leave when they are school age or when we run out of space b/c we all live in 2BRs” neighborhood. basically, all kids at this school would be from outside of the direct neighborhood, which means the projects, where they do in fact have middle school aged kids. why is no one focusing on this very important fact?
A 300 seat middle school is a joke. That is only about 10 – 15 classrooms concurrently, across 3 grades, or around 5 classes running per grade level. And the city would have to pay for the expensive renovation to convert the space into a middle school anyway (about $10m+). Obviously it is a carrot on a stick so the developer can get carte blanche to build out of context in a finally appointed historic area. Sure, it will be helpful to a handful of families IF the developer doesn’t just term-limit the school use, but you’d think the city could come up with the space if they really felt a middle school was needed – especially since they are historically willing to use the law of eminent domain to seize properties for developments (like the Atlantic Yards project). Granted the proposed building is in scale with the largest buildings in the neighborhood, but given its proximity to the Brooklyn Bridge – one of our most iconic national landmarks – it is going to be regrettable. Unfortunately I think it will pass since this is New York and corruption, bribery and low-class nouveau riche mafia moguls win out.
Green desk: $3500 for 500 sq ft? I pay literally half that for a slightly bigger studio down the street with an unobstructed view of the river. Only makes sense for a single desk rental. Too bad some of the revenue goes back into Guttman’s purse.
A 300 seat middle school is a joke. That is only about 10 – 15 classrooms concurrently, across 3 grades, or around 5 classes running per grade level. And the city would have to pay for the expensive renovation to convert the space into a middle school anyway (about $10m+). Obviously it is a carrot on a stick so the developer can get carte blanche to build out of context in a finally appointed historic area. Sure, it will be helpful to a handful of families IF the developer doesn’t just term-limit the school use, but you’d think the city could come up with the space if they really felt a middle school was needed – especially since they are historically willing to use the law of eminent domain to seize properties for developments (like the Atlantic Yards project). Granted the proposed building is in scale with the largest buildings in the neighborhood, but given its proximity to the Brooklyn Bridge – one of our most iconic national landmarks – it is going to be regrettable. Unfortunately I think it will pass since this is New York and corruption, bribery and low-class nouveau riche mafia moguls win out.
Green desk: $3500 for 500 sq ft? I pay literally half that for a slightly bigger studio down the street with an unobstructed view of the river. Only makes sense for a single desk rental. Too bad some of the revenue goes back into Guttman’s purse.
Actually, the floor plans in the Two Trees application only show 9 classrooms, plus an art room, a science room, a music room, and 3 smaller special ed rooms.
Also, the article errs when talking about the bridge-facing frontage. Two sides of the lot face the bridge, not one. In 2004, the 17 story building faced the bridge 149 (south) by 64 (west). In the current plan, the 18 story building faces the bridge 200 (west) by 55 (south). If anything, the current plan disrespects the bridge even more than before. The part of the tower closest to the bridge (southwestern corner, along Front St) is approximately 95 feet away from the bridge in the current plan. In 2004, the closest part was the southwestern corner, along Water Street, and it was approximately 110 feet from the bridge. And yet, City Council would still not approve the building, even though the closest part of the tower was moved from 70 to 110 feet away. In addition, the lower part of the building was 88 feet high in 2004, and now it is 95 feet high. See the 2004 zoning resolution here (page 18 states the 149 foot figure):
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/cpc/010646.pdf
This project BEGS for disapproval.
Actually, the floor plans in the Two Trees application only show 9 classrooms, plus an art room, a science room, a music room, and 3 smaller special ed rooms.
Also, the article errs when talking about the bridge-facing frontage. Two sides of the lot face the bridge, not one. In 2004, the 17 story building faced the bridge 149 (south) by 64 (west). In the current plan, the 18 story building faces the bridge 200 (west) by 55 (south). If anything, the current plan disrespects the bridge even more than before. The part of the tower closest to the bridge (southwestern corner, along Front St) is approximately 95 feet away from the bridge in the current plan. In 2004, the closest part was the southwestern corner, along Water Street, and it was approximately 110 feet from the bridge. And yet, City Council would still not approve the building, even though the closest part of the tower was moved from 70 to 110 feet away. In addition, the lower part of the building was 88 feet high in 2004, and now it is 95 feet high. See the 2004 zoning resolution here (page 18 states the 149 foot figure):
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/cpc/010646.pdf
This project BEGS for disapproval.
this is a travesty. we cannot roll over now that it has passed the corrupt CB2. (man, are all local politicians corrupt windbags? does the cliche have to be so g-damned true?) this will be one of the most regrettable construction projects this great city has seen, all in the name of making the rich richer. so disgusting that they throw in that totally unnecessary and ineffective middle school. it’s laughable that the dumbass fu*kwads on CB2 would fall for it. greedy, corrupt bastards. we need to continue the fight and stop the self-interested, corrupt (at least morally), di*kheads from ruining this great (national) landmark and beautiful neighborhhod.
this is a travesty. we cannot roll over now that it has passed the corrupt CB2. (man, are all local politicians corrupt windbags? does the cliche have to be so g-damned true?) this will be one of the most regrettable construction projects this great city has seen, all in the name of making the rich richer. so disgusting that they throw in that totally unnecessary and ineffective middle school. it’s laughable that the dumbass fu*kwads on CB2 would fall for it. greedy, corrupt bastards. we need to continue the fight and stop the self-interested, corrupt (at least morally), di*kheads from ruining this great (national) landmark and beautiful neighborhhod.
Lest anyone forget that racism, class bias, and NIMBYism lie at the heart of the opposition to this school they need only read ugh’s 2 comments on this page. The NYT did disservice to the community by not giving voice to those of us who deeply feel the need for this school and do not value the views of the few pricey apartments that will be behind this modest development over the education of future generations of neighborhood kids. The Times article was almost totally one sided. Why even the picture was taken from 70 Washington. Absurd! Shame on you New York Times for their failure to present both sides of the issue to the city at large.
Lest anyone forget that racism, class bias, and NIMBYism lie at the heart of the opposition to this school they need only read ugh’s 2 comments on this page. The NYT did disservice to the community by not giving voice to those of us who deeply feel the need for this school and do not value the views of the few pricey apartments that will be behind this modest development over the education of future generations of neighborhood kids. The Times article was almost totally one sided. Why even the picture was taken from 70 Washington. Absurd! Shame on you New York Times for their failure to present both sides of the issue to the city at large.
build and build high. there is a desperate need for a neighborhood middle school. why do you think parents flee?
build and build high. there is a desperate need for a neighborhood middle school. why do you think parents flee?
icecream: you’re a fool. 9 Classrooms with a 300 student capacity are not going to fulfill much in the way of a desperate need for an area middle school, unless you happen to be one of the lucky few to win the lottery. Parents flee for a multitude of reasons. I’d flee to give my kid a yard to run around in. We don’t need to screw up a landmark area under the guise of solving a problem for a minority of people… that is very nearsighted.
If the need is so desperate why doesn’t the city make a deal with any one of the multitude of empty warehouse owners in the neighborhood more towards vinegar hill? There is a whole massive empty lot on Water Street between Jay and Bridge just sitting there. They could always use eminent domain like they did to boot a bunch of people out of their homes to make way for the now defunct Atlantic Yards project.
And there is also no reason to allow them to ‘build high’ just to get the school. Why not enforce a serious reduction in height and still only approve the plan if they agree to provide the paltry space for public use? The government has the power here – certain members of it are just giving it up because they are too lazy, too apathetic or worse, on the take.
icecream: you’re a fool. 9 Classrooms with a 300 student capacity are not going to fulfill much in the way of a desperate need for an area middle school, unless you happen to be one of the lucky few to win the lottery. Parents flee for a multitude of reasons. I’d flee to give my kid a yard to run around in. We don’t need to screw up a landmark area under the guise of solving a problem for a minority of people… that is very nearsighted.
If the need is so desperate why doesn’t the city make a deal with any one of the multitude of empty warehouse owners in the neighborhood more towards vinegar hill? There is a whole massive empty lot on Water Street between Jay and Bridge just sitting there. They could always use eminent domain like they did to boot a bunch of people out of their homes to make way for the now defunct Atlantic Yards project.
And there is also no reason to allow them to ‘build high’ just to get the school. Why not enforce a serious reduction in height and still only approve the plan if they agree to provide the paltry space for public use? The government has the power here – certain members of it are just giving it up because they are too lazy, too apathetic or worse, on the take.
icecream and voyager, you are idiots. i hate people like you. you’re so fugging full of it. get real. clueless morons. check out the real world one day, it’s a crazy place.
icecream and voyager, you are idiots. i hate people like you. you’re so fugging full of it. get real. clueless morons. check out the real world one day, it’s a crazy place.
i can’t even believe you’re calling it a school. its a moneybags real estate project disguised as much more, to make the rich richer, and you morons are falling for their game. this “school” is a joke, is unneeded, and even if it were needed, can be done a lot better at another location without disturbing the character of a national landmark that has stood for over 100 years. and now because some a-hole real estate developer wants to get richer, and tricks morons like you with a “school,” you’re on board. get real!
i can’t even believe you’re calling it a school. its a moneybags real estate project disguised as much more, to make the rich richer, and you morons are falling for their game. this “school” is a joke, is unneeded, and even if it were needed, can be done a lot better at another location without disturbing the character of a national landmark that has stood for over 100 years. and now because some a-hole real estate developer wants to get richer, and tricks morons like you with a “school,” you’re on board. get real!
One sided story, eh? I guess Jed and Carlo’s quotes don’t count. I’d like anyone who is claiming racism and classism and blocked views from 70 Washington as the motivation for the current opposition to think about how the 2004 project, with no school and 70 Washington still housing artist studios, was opposed nonetheless, and was pulled right before the Council would have voted to disapprove. The reason — same as today: views of the Bridge from the sidewalks and from the bridge walkway. Nobody attacked the project opponents back then, and any racist or classist allegations today are unwarranted.
One sided story, eh? I guess Jed and Carlo’s quotes don’t count. I’d like anyone who is claiming racism and classism and blocked views from 70 Washington as the motivation for the current opposition to think about how the 2004 project, with no school and 70 Washington still housing artist studios, was opposed nonetheless, and was pulled right before the Council would have voted to disapprove. The reason — same as today: views of the Bridge from the sidewalks and from the bridge walkway. Nobody attacked the project opponents back then, and any racist or classist allegations today are unwarranted.
The photo in the NYT article was taken from the Sweeney building at 30 Main. If you think this view is 70 Washington, it just shows you don’t know DUMBO.
The photo in the NYT article was taken from the Sweeney building at 30 Main. If you think this view is 70 Washington, it just shows you don’t know DUMBO.
For those of you who are against the Dock St. DUMBO project, print out this poster and hang it up in the window fronts of the neighborhood:
http://savethebrooklynbridge.org/media/poster.jpg
Let’s get the word out about how disruptive this building would be to DUMBO. People need to see this.
For those of you who are against the Dock St. DUMBO project, print out this poster and hang it up in the window fronts of the neighborhood:
http://savethebrooklynbridge.org/media/poster.jpg
Let’s get the word out about how disruptive this building would be to DUMBO. People need to see this.
The argument that there will never be middle school aged kids in this neighborhood simply because there are few now is so flawed. The Dumbo as we all know it is only a few years old. Do you ever notice how many middle school aged kids there are in Brooklyn Heights? It’s not because their parents own enormous apartments or full brownstones. Most of those kids live in smaller apartments than our own Walentas specials. You see older kids in BH because it is an established community, Dumbo is still forming.
To those of you who argue that you’ll leave because you want to give your kids a yard, a playroom or a basement to roam around in — that’s all well and good. But you’re wrong to assume that the rest of us share those priorities and values.
Brooklyn Heights, Dumbo and Vinegar Hill really do a great public middle school, but to think that the Dock Street school will be even remotely able to admit most of the kids who would like to go there is crazy. It’s too small and I worry that if it opens then we’ll never have the public schooling over here that our neighborhoods need and deserve.
The argument that there will never be middle school aged kids in this neighborhood simply because there are few now is so flawed. The Dumbo as we all know it is only a few years old. Do you ever notice how many middle school aged kids there are in Brooklyn Heights? It’s not because their parents own enormous apartments or full brownstones. Most of those kids live in smaller apartments than our own Walentas specials. You see older kids in BH because it is an established community, Dumbo is still forming.
To those of you who argue that you’ll leave because you want to give your kids a yard, a playroom or a basement to roam around in — that’s all well and good. But you’re wrong to assume that the rest of us share those priorities and values.
Brooklyn Heights, Dumbo and Vinegar Hill really do a great public middle school, but to think that the Dock Street school will be even remotely able to admit most of the kids who would like to go there is crazy. It’s too small and I worry that if it opens then we’ll never have the public schooling over here that our neighborhoods need and deserve.
30 Main, 70 Washington, what difference does it make? It’s not a view anyone who doesn’t have a fancy expensive apartment is going to miss.
Are all of you fighting for that person’s view? Really? As they say on Sat. Night Live: Really?
30 Main, 70 Washington, what difference does it make? It’s not a view anyone who doesn’t have a fancy expensive apartment is going to miss.
Are all of you fighting for that person’s view? Really? As they say on Sat. Night Live: Really?
Yes we might need more than 100 seats per grade. Few people realize that PS 8 has fewer than 100 seats per grade and many of those kids are going to go elsewhere even if this school is built so there will be room for every PS 8 kid who wants to attend. But the city is broke, haven’t you noticed? The state is broke and the Fed is printing money. A school like this costs $100 million to build. These numbers come from the DOE. And the guys at 2 trees are giving the city a $50 million gift. I think it is immeasurably selfish of you folks to deny this opportunity for a brand new school in this wonderful location to the children of Brooklyn.
There is a 56 story (now that’s a tower) development going up on the upper east side and they are giving the city not 1 but 3 new schools. This is how schools get built these days in NYC. I think it’s about time Brooklyn start to benefit from the same public/private partnerships that have helped Manhattan for so many years. I didn’t see any schools in the mega project Atlantic Yards. Where was Yassky when that thing was being planned.
Yes we might need more than 100 seats per grade. Few people realize that PS 8 has fewer than 100 seats per grade and many of those kids are going to go elsewhere even if this school is built so there will be room for every PS 8 kid who wants to attend. But the city is broke, haven’t you noticed? The state is broke and the Fed is printing money. A school like this costs $100 million to build. These numbers come from the DOE. And the guys at 2 trees are giving the city a $50 million gift. I think it is immeasurably selfish of you folks to deny this opportunity for a brand new school in this wonderful location to the children of Brooklyn.
There is a 56 story (now that’s a tower) development going up on the upper east side and they are giving the city not 1 but 3 new schools. This is how schools get built these days in NYC. I think it’s about time Brooklyn start to benefit from the same public/private partnerships that have helped Manhattan for so many years. I didn’t see any schools in the mega project Atlantic Yards. Where was Yassky when that thing was being planned.
Mr Walentas – uh, I mean, davoyager – This is not the upper east side; and the upper east side doe not have the brooklyn bridge.
DW and associates are a bunch of greedy f*cktards.
Mr Walentas – uh, I mean, davoyager – This is not the upper east side; and the upper east side doe not have the brooklyn bridge.
DW and associates are a bunch of greedy f*cktards.
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Is it true that two trees approached the community at Farragut via churches etc.. and stated that this project will create jobs specifically for them? And he did this on a previous development on Atlantic that of course created no jobs? Not sure if that is a rumor or not but if it is true then that is the greasiest move I’ve heard of in a long time.
Is it true that two trees approached the community at Farragut via churches etc.. and stated that this project will create jobs specifically for them? And he did this on a previous development on Atlantic that of course created no jobs? Not sure if that is a rumor or not but if it is true then that is the greasiest move I’ve heard of in a long time.
the building and school would be a splendid addition to the neighborhood. i know my kids will get in to the needed middle school. and i have to say i value that, and the further development of the neighborhood as a much greater value then a specific view of the Brooklyn Bridge. times change people. neighborhoods change. the addition of the brooklyn bridge park will give new and excellent views of the bridge. stop whinning it’s getting annoying. try a pacifier.
the building and school would be a splendid addition to the neighborhood. i know my kids will get in to the needed middle school. and i have to say i value that, and the further development of the neighborhood as a much greater value then a specific view of the Brooklyn Bridge. times change people. neighborhoods change. the addition of the brooklyn bridge park will give new and excellent views of the bridge. stop whinning it’s getting annoying. try a pacifier.
i love this neighborhood, but i hate every single person that lives here.
i love this neighborhood, but i hate every single person that lives here.
Including yourself?
Including yourself?
It is not a race or class issue. I don’t personally live in a building with a view of anything other than a sliver of sky above the building next to me. I would not seek to keep a new building from being erected purely to save the view of people who paid too much for their condos and didn’t read the fine print.
Understandably some people would choose to stay in the neighborhood with older children. But not everyone will. And the point is, you don’t screw up a landmark and everybody else’s enjoyment of it to take care of a minority of people who have decided to make the choice to stay in the thick of the city. Especially when the very nature of that choice implies they weighed the pros and cons and decided to stay urban despite that it is — in a historic sense — the harder path to take if you are inclined to have a family. And especially when the proposed solution doesn’t necessarily guarantee that their children will have a seat in any way (or that the school will exist for more than 5-10 years).
And it is not a question of how ‘things change’. Of course there is progress and new things get built and old things get taken away. But the Brooklyn Bridge is a national monument and is heavily iconographic. Many many more people have pride in that monument, and many many more people visit it, walk over and around it, photograph it and enjoy it than the maybe 300 families who would benefit from obscuring it.
There are PLENTY of options in terms of available space in the immediate area where a school could be located in full or in part of a bigger construction. Like I said there is a huge empty pit on Water Street and a number of other derelict industrial properties all over the place. Also, the giant empty parking lot on Jay Street that the Watchtower people were going to build into big ugly Watchtower buildings is no longer going to be developed by Watchtower. They were going to sell it. That is a massive area. And I am sure the City has plenty of leverage with an organization that needs their favor so they can skirt paying taxes as a religious institution.
The school is just bait, and probably bait and switch. And the needs of <= 300 people for a middle-school don’t really account for a moral majority. I’d love for there to be a proper school solution in the area, since selfishly that would ultimately make my place worth more. But I’d also love for that solution to be a real solution, not a cheap ploy sold to lazy and/or corrupt politicians and naive, near-sighted citizens.
It is not a race or class issue. I don’t personally live in a building with a view of anything other than a sliver of sky above the building next to me. I would not seek to keep a new building from being erected purely to save the view of people who paid too much for their condos and didn’t read the fine print.
Understandably some people would choose to stay in the neighborhood with older children. But not everyone will. And the point is, you don’t screw up a landmark and everybody else’s enjoyment of it to take care of a minority of people who have decided to make the choice to stay in the thick of the city. Especially when the very nature of that choice implies they weighed the pros and cons and decided to stay urban despite that it is — in a historic sense — the harder path to take if you are inclined to have a family. And especially when the proposed solution doesn’t necessarily guarantee that their children will have a seat in any way (or that the school will exist for more than 5-10 years).
And it is not a question of how ‘things change’. Of course there is progress and new things get built and old things get taken away. But the Brooklyn Bridge is a national monument and is heavily iconographic. Many many more people have pride in that monument, and many many more people visit it, walk over and around it, photograph it and enjoy it than the maybe 300 families who would benefit from obscuring it.
There are PLENTY of options in terms of available space in the immediate area where a school could be located in full or in part of a bigger construction. Like I said there is a huge empty pit on Water Street and a number of other derelict industrial properties all over the place. Also, the giant empty parking lot on Jay Street that the Watchtower people were going to build into big ugly Watchtower buildings is no longer going to be developed by Watchtower. They were going to sell it. That is a massive area. And I am sure the City has plenty of leverage with an organization that needs their favor so they can skirt paying taxes as a religious institution.
The school is just bait, and probably bait and switch. And the needs of <= 300 people for a middle-school don’t really account for a moral majority. I’d love for there to be a proper school solution in the area, since selfishly that would ultimately make my place worth more. But I’d also love for that solution to be a real solution, not a cheap ploy sold to lazy and/or corrupt politicians and naive, near-sighted citizens.
Amen.
Amen.
People are misinterpreted what people mean when they say they oppose this building because they want to “protect the views.” They don’t mean protecting the views of the Bridge of people living in 70 Washington and other buildings in DUMBO. They are talking about views from the Bridge into Brooklyn and Manhattan. Walentas can design a building that will have far less impact on these views, but is unwilling to do so.
People are misinterpreted what people mean when they say they oppose this building because they want to “protect the views.” They don’t mean protecting the views of the Bridge of people living in 70 Washington and other buildings in DUMBO. They are talking about views from the Bridge into Brooklyn and Manhattan. Walentas can design a building that will have far less impact on these views, but is unwilling to do so.
I admit that I am someone who might directly benefit from a public middle school in the neighborhood for my child, but I have to take issue with this statement:
“the needs of <= 300 people for a middle-school don’t really account for a moral majority.”
A public middle school for our neighborhood would benefit far more than the 300 families whose children could attend this school in one year. For every middle school aged child in the school, there will be many, many more children in the K-6 age range who will be able to matriculate into a local, and presumably very good, middle school. This will be an enormous benefit to hundreds more families those of the 300 children the school can seat in any given calendar year.
I admit that I am someone who might directly benefit from a public middle school in the neighborhood for my child, but I have to take issue with this statement:
“the needs of <= 300 people for a middle-school don’t really account for a moral majority.”
A public middle school for our neighborhood would benefit far more than the 300 families whose children could attend this school in one year. For every middle school aged child in the school, there will be many, many more children in the K-6 age range who will be able to matriculate into a local, and presumably very good, middle school. This will be an enormous benefit to hundreds more families those of the 300 children the school can seat in any given calendar year.
Having put 3 kids through public school let me assure you that there is no guarantee that your kid will go to that school even if you live across the street from it. At the very least that school will be half white and half black, REFLECTING THE MAKE UP OF THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD.
Having put 3 kids through public school let me assure you that there is no guarantee that your kid will go to that school even if you live across the street from it. At the very least that school will be half white and half black, REFLECTING THE MAKE UP OF THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD.
“i love this neighborhood, but i hate every single person that lives here.”
I second this.
“i love this neighborhood, but i hate every single person that lives here.”
I second this.
Question:
If “Green Desk” is so green, why are ALL the lights in the building left on throughout the night? Has anyone checked the credibility of their claims?
Question:
If “Green Desk” is so green, why are ALL the lights in the building left on throughout the night? Has anyone checked the credibility of their claims?
First off I dispute your characterization that this project would “screw up a national landmark.” I have been living near and walking over that wonderful bridge for over 50 years and the renderings of this project doesn’t do any damage to the experience of the bridge whatsoever. This is an hysteria that has been whipped up by the owners of the pricey condo’s and the BHA for reasons of their own.
Second and most important: as residents and tax paying citizens of this great city we in the downtown Brooklyn neighborhoods deserve the same degree of school choice as residents of Manhattan or Queens or so many other areas of NYC that actually are well served by the DOE.
And third: the plane fact is the city can’t afford to build schools on their own anymore. Schools are being built all over the city with this same public/private partnership and we in Brooklyn deserve the same.
First off I dispute your characterization that this project would “screw up a national landmark.” I have been living near and walking over that wonderful bridge for over 50 years and the renderings of this project doesn’t do any damage to the experience of the bridge whatsoever. This is an hysteria that has been whipped up by the owners of the pricey condo’s and the BHA for reasons of their own.
Second and most important: as residents and tax paying citizens of this great city we in the downtown Brooklyn neighborhoods deserve the same degree of school choice as residents of Manhattan or Queens or so many other areas of NYC that actually are well served by the DOE.
And third: the plane fact is the city can’t afford to build schools on their own anymore. Schools are being built all over the city with this same public/private partnership and we in Brooklyn deserve the same.
The views/bowl/experience being ruined argument is weak. If the opposition were so confident in that argument, why do they manipulate the TT plans on their website and posters. I laugh at the totally different facade with the loud color palate. If you’re going to argue about the man’s design, at least use the man’s design.
Aside from all the other benefits; jobs, parking for the park, green construction, affordable housing, for me the greatest is the school. It starts with this assumption; the world would be a better place if kids of all races, religions, ethnicities, economic levels and abilities matriculated together. Especially in the early years – kindergarten to 8th grade. As a parent at PS 8 I can honestly say, that diversity shows up everyday at 8:45AM. Dock Street will continue PS 8’s momentum. Whether you have kids or not, hopefully you will consider that component of the project.
Sincerely,
Carlo Trigiani
The views/bowl/experience being ruined argument is weak. If the opposition were so confident in that argument, why do they manipulate the TT plans on their website and posters. I laugh at the totally different facade with the loud color palate. If you’re going to argue about the man’s design, at least use the man’s design.
Aside from all the other benefits; jobs, parking for the park, green construction, affordable housing, for me the greatest is the school. It starts with this assumption; the world would be a better place if kids of all races, religions, ethnicities, economic levels and abilities matriculated together. Especially in the early years – kindergarten to 8th grade. As a parent at PS 8 I can honestly say, that diversity shows up everyday at 8:45AM. Dock Street will continue PS 8’s momentum. Whether you have kids or not, hopefully you will consider that component of the project.
Sincerely,
Carlo Trigiani
Davoyager, playing the race card again. This time somewhat more subtlety. Shame again. You disgrace yourself each time.
Mr. Trigliani: If you want to make fun of the facade in the DNA renderings, how about making fun of your boy Jed’s yacht marina in the lame best-possible-angle-from-the-middle-of-the-East-River diarama he trots out to all of the CB meetings and puts on display at the corner of Middagh and Henry. Your hypocrisy continually discredits your arguments. I do admire you sophistry.
Both da and Mr. Trigliani continually speak off of Jed’s PowerPoint talking points. Funny, isn’t it, that most P.S. 8 parents are against this project and less than a handful are for it? Why is that?
Davoyager, playing the race card again. This time somewhat more subtlety. Shame again. You disgrace yourself each time.
Mr. Trigliani: If you want to make fun of the facade in the DNA renderings, how about making fun of your boy Jed’s yacht marina in the lame best-possible-angle-from-the-middle-of-the-East-River diarama he trots out to all of the CB meetings and puts on display at the corner of Middagh and Henry. Your hypocrisy continually discredits your arguments. I do admire you sophistry.
Both da and Mr. Trigliani continually speak off of Jed’s PowerPoint talking points. Funny, isn’t it, that most P.S. 8 parents are against this project and less than a handful are for it? Why is that?
I call it like I see it. If you have any doubt that the opposition to this project has some components that you are ashamed of you need only read the comments your neighbors are making on this very blog. I want people to think more deeply about what they are doing and who they are doing it too.
Most people in the opposition have simply been snookered by a hard core group of screamers who have crafted some compelling arguments. But their motivations for doing this are not pretty to look at in the light of day.
I hope the decision makers are able to see through the thin vale of self interest to the greater good just beyond.
I call it like I see it. If you have any doubt that the opposition to this project has some components that you are ashamed of you need only read the comments your neighbors are making on this very blog. I want people to think more deeply about what they are doing and who they are doing it too.
Most people in the opposition have simply been snookered by a hard core group of screamers who have crafted some compelling arguments. But their motivations for doing this are not pretty to look at in the light of day.
I hope the decision makers are able to see through the thin vale of self interest to the greater good just beyond.
was that Gallup or Rasmussen, perhaps Harris who gave you the poll results for PS 8 parents?
was that Gallup or Rasmussen, perhaps Harris who gave you the poll results for PS 8 parents?
Dear Beav – sorry you cant dock your boat next to your apartment with the view.
As for your parent poll, what has amazed me most about this entire process is the way Judy Stanton and David Yassky have skillfully played the field at our wonderful school. They’ve been talking of alternatives and needs for a couple of years but have not produced one real opportunity. They have time to show up for photo ops when the mayor visits but don’t have the time to find a site and negotiate an alternative. In a neighborhood you can walk in 15 minutes, no less. The reality is – there isn’t a viable alternative and there absolutely isn’t one that can compete with Dock Street.
They have worked to convince people that Dock Street will destroy the Brooklyn Bridge as we know it. That is Bushesque fearmongering – and I thought we finally got rid of that!
There are parents on both sides of the issue. I respect that. Many don’t feel comfortable voicing their views – we should all respect that.
30 or 37 Community Board members have voted in support of Dock Street. These are folks who are appointed to serve the community. They have studied the arguments and gone on the record. (Looking for credibility – some of them are Yassky appointees.) Let’s respect that poll. Even you must admit – it’s verifiable and on the record.
Thanks for the discourse Beav. It’s what makes our country great.
Sincerely.
Dear Beav – sorry you cant dock your boat next to your apartment with the view.
As for your parent poll, what has amazed me most about this entire process is the way Judy Stanton and David Yassky have skillfully played the field at our wonderful school. They’ve been talking of alternatives and needs for a couple of years but have not produced one real opportunity. They have time to show up for photo ops when the mayor visits but don’t have the time to find a site and negotiate an alternative. In a neighborhood you can walk in 15 minutes, no less. The reality is – there isn’t a viable alternative and there absolutely isn’t one that can compete with Dock Street.
They have worked to convince people that Dock Street will destroy the Brooklyn Bridge as we know it. That is Bushesque fearmongering – and I thought we finally got rid of that!
There are parents on both sides of the issue. I respect that. Many don’t feel comfortable voicing their views – we should all respect that.
30 or 37 Community Board members have voted in support of Dock Street. These are folks who are appointed to serve the community. They have studied the arguments and gone on the record. (Looking for credibility – some of them are Yassky appointees.) Let’s respect that poll. Even you must admit – it’s verifiable and on the record.
Thanks for the discourse Beav. It’s what makes our country great.
Sincerely.
Turn out tomorrow at Borough Hall for the Borough President’s hearing on the Dock St/DUMBO project.
Folks, it’s not too late to stop this irresponsible development. Turn out to tell the Beep that we can have a proper middle school AND preserve the integrity of the Brooklyn Bridge.
You can choose to speak, or not. But like the CB hearing in December, it’s important to show how many of us are against this plan as currently proposed.
Tuesday, January 27th, 4pm – 9pm
Brooklyn Borough Hall, 209 Joralemon Street
Turn out tomorrow at Borough Hall for the Borough President’s hearing on the Dock St/DUMBO project.
Folks, it’s not too late to stop this irresponsible development. Turn out to tell the Beep that we can have a proper middle school AND preserve the integrity of the Brooklyn Bridge.
You can choose to speak, or not. But like the CB hearing in December, it’s important to show how many of us are against this plan as currently proposed.
Tuesday, January 27th, 4pm – 9pm
Brooklyn Borough Hall, 209 Joralemon Street
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