(Photo from dockstreetdumbo.com)
Two Trees Management has submitted their proposal for construction of an 18 story building to the Department of City Planning for certification on November 17th, 2008. As mentioned on November 7, the NY City Department of Education included plans for a 416 seat school at Dock Street (District 13), scheduled to begin design in October 2010. Since then, the City Planning Department certified the complete project, which means the city’s uniform land use review process (ULURP) is in motion to rezone the site from manufacturing to residential. There will be a public hearing, which will be held by Community Board 2, is on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 6 p.m. at the LIU – Health Sciences Center – Rm107, 1 University Plaza (across the street from Junior’s Restaurant).
Both the Brooklyn Heights Association and the DUMBO Neighborhood Association are opposing the project but there are parents, associated with PS8 in Brooklyn Heights and Dumbo to support the new project due to the need for a middle school in the Dumbo area.
For more information on both sides of the argument, go to DUMBO Neighborhood Association, the Brooklyn Heights Blog’s post about the Dock Street Dumbo project window at the Brooklyn Eagle’s headquarters, or brownstoner.com’s post last week about Dock Street. What do you think? Should the project be built?
Previously:
{DumboNYC.com archives about Dock St.}
No.
This site details the Walentas’ assault on one of NYC’s iconic structures, the Brooklyn Bridge, and contains a detailed summary of the harm the Dock St. building would cause:
http://www.savethebrooklynbridge.org
Already tens of thousands of New Yorkers have signed the online and paper petitions.
No.
This site details the Walentas’ assault on one of NYC’s iconic structures, the Brooklyn Bridge, and contains a detailed summary of the harm the Dock St. building would cause:
http://www.savethebrooklynbridge.org
Already tens of thousands of New Yorkers have signed the online and paper petitions.
f the view, we need the school
f the view, we need the school
Forever changing the view of an iconic structure for the convenience and profit of few is ridiculous. Those who need the school should move to where the schools are.
Forever changing the view of an iconic structure for the convenience and profit of few is ridiculous. Those who need the school should move to where the schools are.
I can’t find a compelling reason that the Board should relax the height restrictions that are placed there for a reason: to shelter Roebling’s gorgeous design.
And what a precedent to set: offer the community a piece of candy and you’ll get your way.
Parents, focus your ire at the Board of Education and demand a school.
But don’t misdirect it at the citizens who are being wise, and conscientious custodians of Roebling’s masterpiece.
I can’t find a compelling reason that the Board should relax the height restrictions that are placed there for a reason: to shelter Roebling’s gorgeous design.
And what a precedent to set: offer the community a piece of candy and you’ll get your way.
Parents, focus your ire at the Board of Education and demand a school.
But don’t misdirect it at the citizens who are being wise, and conscientious custodians of Roebling’s masterpiece.
After reading all available info in favor of and opposition against, I have come to the following conclusion…
There are many issues with putting up a large building so close to the bridge (views, security,context of neighborhood, etc). There are also many issues with placing a school in that location (traffic, access, etc). These concerns cannot be addressed while keeping the project as proposed.
That being said, I believe there is a great need for a school and as a resident of the area I want to see one built.
It just seems to me that it is much easier to find an alternative location for the school. That is the only way to really make both sides happy. It is not as though those in favor only want a school in that spot, they just want it in general and will be happy as long as it exists.
After reading all available info in favor of and opposition against, I have come to the following conclusion…
There are many issues with putting up a large building so close to the bridge (views, security,context of neighborhood, etc). There are also many issues with placing a school in that location (traffic, access, etc). These concerns cannot be addressed while keeping the project as proposed.
That being said, I believe there is a great need for a school and as a resident of the area I want to see one built.
It just seems to me that it is much easier to find an alternative location for the school. That is the only way to really make both sides happy. It is not as though those in favor only want a school in that spot, they just want it in general and will be happy as long as it exists.
nevermind, we don’t need the school. by the time my kids are old enough, this neighborhood will probably be de-gentrified given the current economic mess. Whiteflight all over again.
nevermind, we don’t need the school. by the time my kids are old enough, this neighborhood will probably be de-gentrified given the current economic mess. Whiteflight all over again.
I don’t believe it needs to be so high to make a reasonable return for Two Trees. We can have a school and new building, etc… just reduce the height a little…
I don’t believe it needs to be so high to make a reasonable return for Two Trees. We can have a school and new building, etc… just reduce the height a little…
What happened to the idea of choosing your home based on it’s promixity to good schools?
My parents moved us twice in my childhood (just before kindergarten & just before middle school) to be assured my brother & I would have easy access to good schools.
I guess they had it wrong, they should have just insisted the city build them a convenient school nearby.
What happened to the idea of choosing your home based on it’s promixity to good schools?
My parents moved us twice in my childhood (just before kindergarten & just before middle school) to be assured my brother & I would have easy access to good schools.
I guess they had it wrong, they should have just insisted the city build them a convenient school nearby.
The school is just a carrot the Walentas’ have placed on the end of the stick in order to build a monstrosity that would be a disaster in any number of ways.
They’ve made it so that if you oppose the building you oppose education for children. Obviously nothing could be further from the truth.
If DUMBO needs a school (which is still up for debate) there are literally dozens of other locations that are better suited for it.
DUMBO just got landmark status, which means this building could never be built if it were within the confines of that district (it’s just outside it) but still there is no need to build a new ugly building when so many iconic ones already exist.
There are a hundred reasons not to do this, apart from the ones that are most pressing, namely the damage it will do one of the world’s great landmarks.
I think the meeting on the 17th will be heated and quite interesting. And the irony is that the Walentas’ created a ‘hood full of smart, efficacious people who stand up to things that are wrong, and they’ll be shut down because of that.
The school is just a carrot the Walentas’ have placed on the end of the stick in order to build a monstrosity that would be a disaster in any number of ways.
They’ve made it so that if you oppose the building you oppose education for children. Obviously nothing could be further from the truth.
If DUMBO needs a school (which is still up for debate) there are literally dozens of other locations that are better suited for it.
DUMBO just got landmark status, which means this building could never be built if it were within the confines of that district (it’s just outside it) but still there is no need to build a new ugly building when so many iconic ones already exist.
There are a hundred reasons not to do this, apart from the ones that are most pressing, namely the damage it will do one of the world’s great landmarks.
I think the meeting on the 17th will be heated and quite interesting. And the irony is that the Walentas’ created a ‘hood full of smart, efficacious people who stand up to things that are wrong, and they’ll be shut down because of that.
don’t worry, there will be no building or school. The economic melt down will lead to increase in violent crime, a few stroller mom’s/ipod joggers get their ass’s mugged, then everyone moves out of dumbo for the suburbs.
don’t worry, there will be no building or school. The economic melt down will lead to increase in violent crime, a few stroller mom’s/ipod joggers get their ass’s mugged, then everyone moves out of dumbo for the suburbs.
Dock Street DUMBO is opposed by the Fulton Ferry Landing Association as well.
Dock Street DUMBO is opposed by the Fulton Ferry Landing Association as well.
An elementary school guarantees kids from that neighborhood access. Middle schools and High schools, however, belong to the district, not the neighborhood. Even if the school was built on Dock St. or somewhere else in the neighborhood, it would not guarantee the residents of DUMBO would have access to the school. It would depend on an application process left to the discretion of the school. Kids from anywhere in the district can apply. This school is not necessarily for the growing families in DUMBO.
And the building stinks.
An elementary school guarantees kids from that neighborhood access. Middle schools and High schools, however, belong to the district, not the neighborhood. Even if the school was built on Dock St. or somewhere else in the neighborhood, it would not guarantee the residents of DUMBO would have access to the school. It would depend on an application process left to the discretion of the school. Kids from anywhere in the district can apply. This school is not necessarily for the growing families in DUMBO.
And the building stinks.
It could not be more important to attend the meeting on the 17th if you appose the building. The more voices heard the more impact.
It could not be more important to attend the meeting on the 17th if you appose the building. The more voices heard the more impact.
mad is right. You could live directly across from that new school and your kid would end up taking a train to the rear end of Brooklyn.There will be nothing but a smear of graffiti and broken glass from Farragut down to Dock street.
mad is right. You could live directly across from that new school and your kid would end up taking a train to the rear end of Brooklyn.There will be nothing but a smear of graffiti and broken glass from Farragut down to Dock street.
This middle school will be for the Faragut natives since all the whitey’s will flee from dumbo soon.
This middle school will be for the Faragut natives since all the whitey’s will flee from dumbo soon.
Let’s get back on point, please. The reason to oppose the project in its current state (184′) is the views of and from the Bridge that it destroys, and the density. 323 units, 465 space garage, 300 kids — imagine the congestion on Dock, Front, and all the nearby streets?
Let’s get back on point, please. The reason to oppose the project in its current state (184′) is the views of and from the Bridge that it destroys, and the density. 323 units, 465 space garage, 300 kids — imagine the congestion on Dock, Front, and all the nearby streets?
Obviously, any property owners in 70 Wash or 30 Main or 57 Front with western views of the skyline and the bridge are angry that this proposed development could hurt their property values, and rightly so. Walentas and his sales team/trained seals misrepresented themslves to some potential buyers when showing the units (according to previous complaints). But doesn’t that cloud their ability to fairly judge the appropriateness or desirabilty of the building and school? I think so. Childless residents may have their own bias against a school in the neighborhood. Preservationists may object to the building on pure aesthetic grounds without considering the impact a school could have. It seems hard to really determine who has a clear, informed, impersonal opinion of what will be good for the nabe in the long run. Wish I could hear it.
Obviously, any property owners in 70 Wash or 30 Main or 57 Front with western views of the skyline and the bridge are angry that this proposed development could hurt their property values, and rightly so. Walentas and his sales team/trained seals misrepresented themslves to some potential buyers when showing the units (according to previous complaints). But doesn’t that cloud their ability to fairly judge the appropriateness or desirabilty of the building and school? I think so. Childless residents may have their own bias against a school in the neighborhood. Preservationists may object to the building on pure aesthetic grounds without considering the impact a school could have. It seems hard to really determine who has a clear, informed, impersonal opinion of what will be good for the nabe in the long run. Wish I could hear it.
fulton ferry res, I think you are missing the point. If the Bd. of Ed. deems this school necessary then why should they consider the “view”? In terms of congestion? That’s relative. Dumbo will be under extreme pressure to “fill in” like Manhattan, it is to close in not to. In terms of people loosing their property values? That’s to bad. It is inevitable in a fast changing neighborhood with lots of underdeveloped land. Caveat emptor dooshbag!
fulton ferry res, I think you are missing the point. If the Bd. of Ed. deems this school necessary then why should they consider the “view”? In terms of congestion? That’s relative. Dumbo will be under extreme pressure to “fill in” like Manhattan, it is to close in not to. In terms of people loosing their property values? That’s to bad. It is inevitable in a fast changing neighborhood with lots of underdeveloped land. Caveat emptor dooshbag!
hey loose stool “dooshbag” it is douchebag you moron.
Love when you have idiots insulting other people and they can’t even get the insult right.
agree this school is stupid. the city should just claim the jehovah land and build a school and other mixed use buildings..
hey loose stool “dooshbag” it is douchebag you moron.
Love when you have idiots insulting other people and they can’t even get the insult right.
agree this school is stupid. the city should just claim the jehovah land and build a school and other mixed use buildings..
I say don’t build the school. Who wants more of those degenerate dumb project kids coming into this neighborhood. They will walk around with their gang colors and terrorize the rich kids.
I say don’t build the school. Who wants more of those degenerate dumb project kids coming into this neighborhood. They will walk around with their gang colors and terrorize the rich kids.
great, dooshbag is Farragut spell check for fukface which is what you are.
“the city should just claim the jehovah land and build a school and other mixed use buildings”, What are you,12? Retarded maybe? Didn’t know we had a Ratner suppository for Atlantic Yards in the neighborhood.
Go blough yourself!
great, dooshbag is Farragut spell check for fukface which is what you are.
“the city should just claim the jehovah land and build a school and other mixed use buildings”, What are you,12? Retarded maybe? Didn’t know we had a Ratner suppository for Atlantic Yards in the neighborhood.
Go blough yourself!
I thought I read somewhere that there will be a tuition fee to attend this school. It’s not a terribly high fee, but I thought it was in place possibly to *control* which children could attend the school. Could anyone correct me, or let me know if they remembering reading something similar?
I’m really conflicted about the building and the way this whole thing has been handled, but Dumbo & Brooklyn Heights do need another school –wherever it finally lands.
I thought I read somewhere that there will be a tuition fee to attend this school. It’s not a terribly high fee, but I thought it was in place possibly to *control* which children could attend the school. Could anyone correct me, or let me know if they remembering reading something similar?
I’m really conflicted about the building and the way this whole thing has been handled, but Dumbo & Brooklyn Heights do need another school –wherever it finally lands.
the school is only going to be open to rich jewish kids anyhow. but they’ll still get freakin free public funding & assistance and make some token donation to a poor kids pencil fund while publicizing the hell out of such a magnanimous “gift” (of public money). figures.
the school is only going to be open to rich jewish kids anyhow. but they’ll still get freakin free public funding & assistance and make some token donation to a poor kids pencil fund while publicizing the hell out of such a magnanimous “gift” (of public money). figures.
It’s going to be race warz between the rich jewish kids and the po’ black kids from the projects. the modern day story of the west side story.
one update: the menacing one known as “black” has been seen walking the neighborhood again.
It’s going to be race warz between the rich jewish kids and the po’ black kids from the projects. the modern day story of the west side story.
one update: the menacing one known as “black” has been seen walking the neighborhood again.
Loose — I will not sink to your junior high level of communication — maybe you should attend the Dock Street school, since mentally you are that age. But, I will correct you. I never said that the DOE should take into consideration the views of and from the Bridge. This project requires multiple variances and zoning changes, and it is ultimately City Planning Commission and City Council that will vote on whether they will be granted. The school is just a carrot that Jed and Ken Fisher devised this time to divide the neighborhood residents and gain some support, since he had virtually none in 2004 besides his own commercial tenants, many of whom enjoy rent-free status, and are not-so-subtly pressured into testifying. And the Dean of Architecture of Pratt adding his support is laughable — D. Walentas sits on their Board.
Loose — I will not sink to your junior high level of communication — maybe you should attend the Dock Street school, since mentally you are that age. But, I will correct you. I never said that the DOE should take into consideration the views of and from the Bridge. This project requires multiple variances and zoning changes, and it is ultimately City Planning Commission and City Council that will vote on whether they will be granted. The school is just a carrot that Jed and Ken Fisher devised this time to divide the neighborhood residents and gain some support, since he had virtually none in 2004 besides his own commercial tenants, many of whom enjoy rent-free status, and are not-so-subtly pressured into testifying. And the Dean of Architecture of Pratt adding his support is laughable — D. Walentas sits on their Board.
While I do not have a view of Manhattan or the Brooklyn Bridge from my apartment, like most people, I marvel at the beauty of the Bridge from the streets below, as well as the sweeping vistas afforded from the pedestrian walkway. I also do not have a child who will benefit from any public school that may or may not ultimately be built-out by the City. Having said that, I fail to see how any objective, reasonable person could see this building as anything other than a complete abomination. The comparisons to the heights of other neighborhood buildings [i.e., Beacon, 70 Wash., J Condo] which I have seen floated recently are absurd. Those buildings are hundreds and in some cases thousands of feet away from the Bridge. In contrast, the Dock St. building is so close that one corner is literally underneath the Bridge! If you are ever going to build that close to something so special you must do something equally special (or at least make an effort). I.M. Pei’s pyramid at the Louvre comes to mind. Clearly, Dock St. will become an architectural counterpoint to the Bridge due to its spatial relationship. Unfortunately, its symbolism will be entirely negative and it will serve as a damning indictment of the trashy, self-gratified society from which it spawned. It will illustrate the extent to which money ultimately trumps any and all considerations, as well as our wanton lack of care for the beautiful, meaningful things that have been left to us by our ancestors. If built, Dock St. will forever smear the singular, iconic landmark of Brooklyn. We reap what we sow.
While I do not have a view of Manhattan or the Brooklyn Bridge from my apartment, like most people, I marvel at the beauty of the Bridge from the streets below, as well as the sweeping vistas afforded from the pedestrian walkway. I also do not have a child who will benefit from any public school that may or may not ultimately be built-out by the City. Having said that, I fail to see how any objective, reasonable person could see this building as anything other than a complete abomination. The comparisons to the heights of other neighborhood buildings [i.e., Beacon, 70 Wash., J Condo] which I have seen floated recently are absurd. Those buildings are hundreds and in some cases thousands of feet away from the Bridge. In contrast, the Dock St. building is so close that one corner is literally underneath the Bridge! If you are ever going to build that close to something so special you must do something equally special (or at least make an effort). I.M. Pei’s pyramid at the Louvre comes to mind. Clearly, Dock St. will become an architectural counterpoint to the Bridge due to its spatial relationship. Unfortunately, its symbolism will be entirely negative and it will serve as a damning indictment of the trashy, self-gratified society from which it spawned. It will illustrate the extent to which money ultimately trumps any and all considerations, as well as our wanton lack of care for the beautiful, meaningful things that have been left to us by our ancestors. If built, Dock St. will forever smear the singular, iconic landmark of Brooklyn. We reap what we sow.
Can this Loose Stools person be forever banished from the blog? Every topic I read, he’s there trying to drag the conversation into the muck. It’s really poisoning this forum.
Additionally, I think any and all racist or anti-semitic comments (see above) should be deleted by the host. This is a neighborhood blog, there are other venues where those views can be vented before a willing audience of like minded individuals.
Can this Loose Stools person be forever banished from the blog? Every topic I read, he’s there trying to drag the conversation into the muck. It’s really poisoning this forum.
Additionally, I think any and all racist or anti-semitic comments (see above) should be deleted by the host. This is a neighborhood blog, there are other venues where those views can be vented before a willing audience of like minded individuals.
Agree with Polite Request. As soon as we see that Loose Stools is commenting, we end up just moving on to another site or logging off rather than continuing or even choosing to comment. Also, it seems that Loose Stools also impersonates others’ by using their handles as well. Yeesh, what a loser.
Agree with Polite Request. As soon as we see that Loose Stools is commenting, we end up just moving on to another site or logging off rather than continuing or even choosing to comment. Also, it seems that Loose Stools also impersonates others’ by using their handles as well. Yeesh, what a loser.
That’s Mr. Stool to you, you tool.
That’s Mr. Stool to you, you tool.
A haiku for my little friends:
Polite request Says:
It is time to leave Loose Stool
twink concurs damn it.
A haiku for my little friends:
Polite request Says:
It is time to leave Loose Stool
twink concurs damn it.
What’s wrong with the school right on Front street where we all vote? Oh right, that school’s not good enough for YOUR kids.
What’s wrong with the school right on Front street where we all vote? Oh right, that school’s not good enough for YOUR kids.
That school is an elementary school. Not a middle school.
That school is an elementary school. Not a middle school.
It is presumptuous to presume that the people in Dumbo have any say over where their kids will go to public school. Look at District 13. This is a minority and low income district for the most part. People in Brooklyn Heights will tell you that PS 8 was a closely guarded secret neighborhood (white) school 20 years ago, until “militant” parents from Farragut took over. Dumbo is nothing more then a dingleberry on Farragut’s ass. If you are pregnant now it is already too late to get on line at St. Anns.
It is presumptuous to presume that the people in Dumbo have any say over where their kids will go to public school. Look at District 13. This is a minority and low income district for the most part. People in Brooklyn Heights will tell you that PS 8 was a closely guarded secret neighborhood (white) school 20 years ago, until “militant” parents from Farragut took over. Dumbo is nothing more then a dingleberry on Farragut’s ass. If you are pregnant now it is already too late to get on line at St. Anns.
I have been following this blog for some time and I have to say I agree with Polite Request. I shudder every time I see the name “loose stools” (and the childish impulse behind that name), and I also often leave the string when I see he (or she…though I bet not!) is blogging. Can’t you identify his true e-mail and block him? His comments are always juvenile, unfunny, and sometimes hurtful to the discussion. He contributes nothing to the discussion but vitriol. He is not clever, and actually sad, somehow.
I have been following this blog for some time and I have to say I agree with Polite Request. I shudder every time I see the name “loose stools” (and the childish impulse behind that name), and I also often leave the string when I see he (or she…though I bet not!) is blogging. Can’t you identify his true e-mail and block him? His comments are always juvenile, unfunny, and sometimes hurtful to the discussion. He contributes nothing to the discussion but vitriol. He is not clever, and actually sad, somehow.
Amen.
Get him and the others who hide behind anonymity and spout hate or racism or sexism or anti semitism off this blog. I’m sick of it. Loose Stool , if you are so sure of your beliefs, what is your name and address? Phone number? Whatever your reply, if you don’t include those you are a coward and not a man. You are hiding behind the blog and making this place undesirable to those who truly care about the neighborhood and I’m sick of it, too. Put your name on your thoughts if they are incendiary otherwise you are just a wimp
Amen.
Get him and the others who hide behind anonymity and spout hate or racism or sexism or anti semitism off this blog. I’m sick of it. Loose Stool , if you are so sure of your beliefs, what is your name and address? Phone number? Whatever your reply, if you don’t include those you are a coward and not a man. You are hiding behind the blog and making this place undesirable to those who truly care about the neighborhood and I’m sick of it, too. Put your name on your thoughts if they are incendiary otherwise you are just a wimp
it would be nice if these jackasses werent on the blog all the time and he is definitely one
it would be nice if these jackasses werent on the blog all the time and he is definitely one
hey scroll back…it took loose stools like 9 minutes to think up that lame ass haiku. i’m not an expert…and i’m sorry if i’m hating…but he seems a little slow. maybe you all should be nice to him.maybe this is all he can do.
hey scroll back…it took loose stools like 9 minutes to think up that lame ass haiku. i’m not an expert…and i’m sorry if i’m hating…but he seems a little slow. maybe you all should be nice to him.maybe this is all he can do.
yawn
yawn
Censorship. Sweet!
Censorship. Sweet!
i think you all need to get lives. this is just a silly neighborhhod blog. stop taking it and yourselves so seriously. if someone has something to say, let him or her say it, no matter how dumb or whatever you think it may be. no one is forcing you to read it. if you don’t like it, ignore it. the fact that you disagree with the opinion or commentary does not give you or anyone the right to censor it. honestly, get on with your lives, you pretentious dic*s.
i think you all need to get lives. this is just a silly neighborhhod blog. stop taking it and yourselves so seriously. if someone has something to say, let him or her say it, no matter how dumb or whatever you think it may be. no one is forcing you to read it. if you don’t like it, ignore it. the fact that you disagree with the opinion or commentary does not give you or anyone the right to censor it. honestly, get on with your lives, you pretentious dic*s.
Now for something completely different, did anyone attend last night’s CB2 meeting, and if so, what can you tell us?
Now for something completely different, did anyone attend last night’s CB2 meeting, and if so, what can you tell us?