Dumbo NYC

Ca-Cing!

I'm being paid by the spare change left behind in the seat cushions at Jed's lobbyist's office. When you get paid north of $180,000 during the past two years to lobby the CB, CDC, and City Council, sometimes all of it can't fit into ones pockets and some gold coins fall behind the couch.

I also get some left over loose change that falls behind the seat cushions at the offices of Councilwomen Quinn and Katz. This is from the money Two Trees has paid through its "employees" to subvert political donation laws limits. Both of these stories have been reported extensively in the NYT and the NY Post and have previously been posted here.

DuhVoyager is either:

a) using Rovian tactics intentionally to smear his advesaries with exactly what his side is doing (hey, it worked for GWB for 8 years until everyone finally got wise).

or

b) he's subconsicously projecting himself and his "side" (you know, the one that's spreading many hundreds of thousands of dollars around buying political support, onto his advesaries).

The effect is the same.

Folks, this is your last chance to write to key City Councilpeople and tell them to stand strong.

You can also try Quinn and Katz, but as last week's NY Post article shows, they were each paid over $25,000 by Two Trees in "contributions".

Here's the email addresses:

http://council.nyc.gov/d3/html/members/home.shtml This links you to Christine Quinn's website.

katz@council.nyc.ny.us

avella@council.nyc.ny.us

yasskydockst@gmail.com


You're in front of the computer, so take a few moments to stop Dock St. DUMBO as it's currently configured to diminsh the Brooklyn Brige.

Davoyager-

Who is paying Publius? Don't you think if the anti side had the money, it would be better funneled into the campaigns of politicians as this seems so far to be more effective?

sorry Pub but you'll have to work a few more days. The hearing is the 21st. xtra billing hours.

Funny DuhVoyager, I was thinking exactly the same about you.

Folks, if you oppose the diminishment of Brooklyn's world famous icon, a symbol of our City, and our nation, now is your last chance to do something about it.

Write to your City Councilperson and tell him/her to vote against the Two Trees zoning change.

DuhVoyager and his shills for the developer have tried their shell game over and over during this fight.

The tens of thousands of signatures against this project...The vast majority of community organizations against this project...The majority of speakers in person at multiple public hearing prove the people are against Dock Street Dumbo as currently configured.

The project must be lowered below the Brooklyn Bridge roadway.

On DuhVoyager and Carlos' side is Jeb's checkbook with hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on lobbyists and bribe money sent to key City Councilpeople like Quinn and Katz.

Where are their thousands of petition ?(they don't have any)

Where are their majorities at the various ULURP public hearings? (they don't have any).

Where is the guarantee in writing that if the developer were to get his zoning change that any potential benefit to the community would result (it doesn't exist).

The shills can keep trying their shell game. It's been a semi-brilliant ploy by the Two Trees PR and money machine. But they can't refute the facts, so they try to dance around them with the continued Doublespeak.

May 15th is the hearing before the zoning committee. Take the time now while you're in front of the computer to email your city councilperson. Let the voice of the people be heard instead of the $$$ of mammon.

The great bridge was part of the seduction that eventually lead to “Great Mistake of 1898.?
I didn't make that up. It's a point of view I've heard expressed more than once.
I for one am very proud to be a citizen of what has been perhaps the greatest city on earth and the capital of the world. Our time may be passing now but this will always be a great city and our best days may still be ahead of us.

I believe you but I am still convinced your buddy Pub bully is a hired gun employing a win at any cost strategy. And as such he is denying the community an honest and open discussion.

DaVoyager-

I can honestly tell you I am not rich and am not being paid for my opposition.

BL- I will submit to you an example of propaganda and the use of fear tactics to achieve an aim

http://brooklynheightsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/img_0353.jpg

No2 it's the rich community activists against the middle class. I could give a fig about the developer.

Pub bully,
1 it's entirely possible one of my wife's friends used our computer to post to the BHB as there are parents from PS 8 at my house all the time.
2 the identity that found it's way on my post never spoke about Dock St on the blogs.
3 what possible motivation would I have to apologize to that person in public if I were trying to hide something knowing full well you would jump all over me for it regardless of the truth.
And to answer your question I have tried to ignore your nasty hyperbole preferring instead to talk about the issues. But you have repeated your lies so much I finally decided to set the record straight. I will soon go back to ignoring you because it's so unpleasant to hear your nonsense.

DaVoyager-

Are you using the 'rich community activists against the poor developer' argument again?

Pub bully you know damn who I am and that I'm genuine because I stood up and spoke from the heart at both the BP's hearing and the CB's hearing. However nobody really knows who you are because you hide behind your anonymous identity and I have become convinced you are a lawyer who has been hired and is being paid to spread misinformation and intimidation for your clients purpose. Please allow the community to have an honest discussion with out your lies and slander.

BL,

I am calling you out on your statement.

What is 'opinion', 'propaganda' and 'fact'?

Look at the posts by Harry and Daddy Mack, and please give an answer.

Also, are you the one plastering those hideous 'Brooklyn Love' stickers in the shops in DUMBO?

If so, wouldn't that be considered 'vandalism'?

Unsure = DuhVoyager posing as a fake straw man. Proven by Duh's admitted accidental posting under another name above.

I'd now like to pose as someone "unsure" about Dock St. Dumbo:

(points index finger in cheek) Can someone tell me why anyone living in this City would choose to diminish our National Monument by giving a developer who hasn't put his promises of "affordable" housing and a shell for a colluding SCA in writing, the zoning change he so wants following all the bribe money he has spread around to defeat the will of the clear majority?

Especially after Toll Brothers back off their promises of "affordable" housing when pressed by the CB to put promises of same in writing.

Tell me DuhVoyager: I've been calling you out many times and for many months for your Borough Hall performance when you said that Dock St opponents can't be real Brooklynites. Why all of a sudden do you take umbrage?

Folks of Brooklyn, last chance to tell your City Councilpeople how you feel about this project. Send snail mail and email.

Notice how I don't need to encourage anyone to be against it? Because it's been proved time and time again the vast majority of Brooklynites are against Dock St./Dumbo as currently configured.

Hopefully Yassky and Avella will have the necessary spine to stand against this.

The ONLY reason why a school exists in the current proposal is because opponents defeated the first attempt to build this building - which forced the developer to include concessions, such as a school.

Ironically, Two Trees itself acknowledges that the new proposal is BETTER than the one the community initially rejected.

The issue is NOT school vs. no school (that is TTs framing the issue).

It is about the BEST possible solution.

BL-

Can you please point out what is opinion, propaganda and fact. Place a circle around each statement and write 'Opinion', 'Propaganda' and 'Fact'.

Da- I fully agree with many of your points. IMHO, you are being duped, as you claim others are. There is no guarantee of a school. The developer hasn't been held to that task, it is just a 'promise'. The developer isn't thinking let's build a school and building, he is thinking let me build a building and donate a 'shell'. This is a major point that you should be looking at, especially in light of the economy. Can the DOE afford to add plumbing, windows and doors? The state and city is slashing the budget with a machete, so to speak. If they are concerned with a tighter budget and lower revenue, what is to guarantee the city will come through on the school rather than just buying more trailers and placing them next to already over-crowded schools? You mention the Atlantic Yards project, and that had all sorts of 'promises' that were dropped due to the economy. This is why it is important to bring this process back to square one. Redesign the building lower than the bridge. Heck, if he is such a man of the community, why not just build a school? That would be a true gift to the community that has given him so much already.

I am curious about this statement:

"When this great bridge was being built Brooklyn was promised that we would be an equal partner in this creation of a Greater New York City. We are still waiting for that promise to be fulfilled."

At the time of completion of the Bridge, Brooklyn was not part of New York City. Although there was talk of consolidation when the bridge was completed, I am unaware of any such talk during it's construction. It was a hot political item and the vote in 1894 only passed by one vote. Consolidation occurred in 1898, and it is known as the "Great Mistake of 1898"

I ask this as I am a history buff.

I am sooooooo tired of hearing about this.

Just to set the record straight what follows is a word for word transcript of my statement at the BP's hearing. I read the whole thing and can't see where you got the quote you are falsely attributing to me.
Mr. Borough President and assembled citizens of Brooklyn,

I am a life long Brooklynite, victim of the NYC public school system and father of 2 now entering that same system. Some of you may know me as the Emily Warren Roebling Middle School of the Environment guy.
.
When this great bridge was being built Brooklyn was promised that we would be an equal partner in this creation of a Greater New York City. We are still waiting for that promise to be fulfilled.

With regard to this issue: parents in almost any neighborhood in Manhattan and elsewhere in the city have any number of good public middle school choices for their children to the point that they can choose based on criteria such as whether the lockers are nice enough. Lockers! Here in Brooklyn if we have lockers they are WWII vintage, or more likely, they have been ripped out to make another room .

Over the past decade or more the DOE has been building neighborhood schools all over the city using this same public/private partnership but not here in downtown Brooklyn. 2 trees comes along with this modest development respectful of this great bridge which will provide jobs and affordable housing, the school long needed and suddenly councilman Yassky and the BHA are casting around for any kind of alternative they can think of to putting this middle school in DUMBO.

They say:"put the school in the old jail on Atlantic avenue" Put the school in the jail, think about that.

They say: squeeze 3 more grades of big kids into the already overcrowded and outdated PS 8 which needs an annex built just to meet it's current mission. An idea which shows just how little they care about the quality of the education these middle school aged children, and all the public school children here will be getting.

They say spend the xtra $50 million (the value of this gift or bribe however you want to look at it) to build a new school anywhere else but Dock Street; a location where generations of kids would be able to share the views of this magnificent bridge built by dreamers with those who can actually afford to live here.

I would ask: where was Councilman Yassky and the BHA when the mega project Atlantic Yards was being planned. There are no schools in that nightmarish collection of the over sized and the over sold.

Where was councilman Yassky and the BHA when the big Hotel and condo development called Brooklyn Bridge Park was being planned? There are no schools in those over sized, out of place towers either.

And you can bet that if this project is defeated all these people trying so hard to find an alternative to this wonderful school idea will evaporate like last weeks snow on a summer day.

And you can bet that if they truly understood the need they would have seen this done years ago, and seen it done right.

Nobody here knows if this project is actually going to be built in the current economic meltdown but it represents a real chance we now have, at this moment, in these downtown neighborhoods for a brand new school.

These communities are hungry for public middle schools to nurture and this is where they might create one of the great public schools for the Borough of Brooklyn and for the city of New York.

This is too good an idea to pass up for narrow personal reasons however well they have been packaged for the public.

So I say it is about time, it is long past about time that Brooklyn got it's fair share of the kinds of resources available to children and parents living elsewhere in this great city.

I say: let's seize this opportunity, Let's build this school together so the children of Brooklyn can have a quality education in this inspirational setting.

Thank you very much for your time.

really? you're the ones presenting opinion as fact. i'm calling it for what it is until you show otherwise.

The same can be said about yourself, BL

normal operating procedure - pressed for facts and the reaction is more propaganda and screaming. you just don't understand that the only people listening to you are the people who already think like you and that's why you're a complete failure.

I was there. I heard it....but it's besides the point anyway.

As for your position, don't you think, considering Walentas' history, it should be verify, then trust?

As for a school, I honestly can say I am with you on that position, however you shouldn't go after Yassky for not securing a school on paper as his opposition is beyond just a school. He has chosen the position of the opposition which questions Walentas' honesty. The person who should have gotten it in writing was the Borough President. His record on other projects in Brooklyn is highly questionable. What I fear, and what you should fear is the school being dropped if the zoning gets changed. This would set back your position greatly.It wouldn't be the fault of those opposed, as they have consistently stated the issues should be separate.

I never said that and am quite willing to publish my whole statement here to prove it. I did say a lot of the opposition is from newly transplanted Manhattanites but I never said "anyone against the project" as that would be absurd. I personally know many lifelong and multigenerational Brooklynites who are against the project. And besides, I am used to being in a minority and taking unpopular positions so there would be no reason for me to make such a sweeping statement. Don't believe everything Pub says cause he is just swinging wild.

DaVoyager, first, if you noticed, I stopped using DUH.

But you are also big on name-calling.

Would you disavow your statement from the Borough Hall night about anyone against the project is not a true Brooklynite? If you admit you were wrong in that regard, I will back off as well, fair enough?

Name calling and vicious hyperbole aside Pub why do you have to be so nasty. I deliberately avoid talking to you directly because you are being so unpleasant. I honestly don't know why you think that is the appropriate way to engage in public discourse. I would guess your poverty of reason makes lashing out with ugly words your only recourse. Sad really.

BrooklynRove-

I never said 'Majority opinion' stop putting words in my mouth BrooklynRove. Of course, they wouldn't dare put out a poll on New Yorkers as to what they think of the project, or developers in general.

But while you are down at Borough Hall looking over thousands of signatures against the project, you may want to ask them for the petition of people FOR the project....I am sure it will be a lesson to learn.

Do it yourself Brooklyn"Love", it's a public document. You can spend some time at Borough Hall reviewing it.

Don't you hate when these inconvenient hard facts get in the way of your DoubleSpeak?

and those signatures are from residents living where specifically? draw the circle around that answer, and tell me what % of all residents w/n that circle those sigs represent.

BrooklynLove (Rovian name for Brooklyn Hate):

How can you ignore the 10,000+ signatures against the project? The majority of speakers against the project at each hearing? The majority of neighborhood associations agains the project. In reality, you can't.

You're ejaculations are a great example of Orwellian "Doublespeak". Of course, the previous administration with their doublespokes man (present Fox consultant) Karl Rove were masters at this. And the pro-Dock Street side has taken a page from our 8 year nightmare.

The pro-Dock Street micro-minority has been masterful at denying the obvious and reality:

The vast number of Brooklynites, New Yorkers and Americans don't want our National Monument diminished by the project as currently configured.

The reality is the pro-Dock street side consists of Jed's checkbook, a superlobbyist, payments (bribes) to city councilpeople, smokey backroom scandalous deals with a corrupt School Construction Authority, and a PR shell game of a middle school shell and "affordable housing", none of which are the developers contractually obligated to. Though they ask first for their zoning change.

Great example of Rovian doublespeak in Brooklyn. And you Brooklyn"Love" (another example of doublespeak given your record on this board) have chosen to join the micro-minority trying to foist this shell game onto our City.

I keep repeating b/c you keep making the same out of touch assessments re majority opinion.

what % of residents does your community of resistence comprise? not even 1% of 11201. not even 1% of 1% of 1% ... of Brooklyn. not even .1% of .1% of .1% ... of the 5 Boros.

BrooklynLove

honestly, you keep repeating your talking points. I stand by the petitions, and neighborhood associations as my verification of what the community wants. You are lost on your own narrow view and there really is no point in answering your posts anymore.

DaVoyager- I do believe your sincerity, but IMHO the process has gone beyond the points on what you address. None of the politicians who have approved the changes so far have addressed what you are asking. Just a shell of a school isn't enough. Kids need things like plumbing and doors. And Two Trees has shown no willingness to give anything other than a shell. It is a trojan horse.

"And if it were an unsafe place to live then what is everyone doing down there."

The list of building in unsafe places is long. Look at the Gowanus Canal for the answer to this question.

Trust but verify. All we are getting is 35k sq ft exterior walls unfinished on the inside with sub floor and unfinished ceiling. They are not giving us any electrical, plumbing, interior walls or any of that but The value of that unfinished space was estimated at $50 million although it would be a lot cheaper today even in this area. I wouldn't be surprised if they made us pay extra for windows. But that's the gift, and we own it and can build whatever school we want with the SCA working as our contractor. My impression is that these guys are very professional and will build us a great school whatever the constraints.
By all means study the effect of digging the foundation on the other structures in the area. We (humanity) are suppose to know how to build stuff like this but we do sometimes make mistakes.
People have talked about the air quality around the site and I remind everybody that modern buildings are climate controlled with powerful air filtration systems. And if it were an unsafe place to live then what is everyone doing down there.
I have studied the site and have to conclude that street level views are unimpeded except for some remote angles. However it is clear the views from many windows will permanently be changed, windows in a number of buildings but that is what it means to live in NY and there will be new views created and a steady flow of young minds will experience views every day of the bridge and the waterfront vista of perhaps the greatest city in the world rising from the confluence of 2 great rivers.

OK the East river is not really a great river being a tributary of the might Hudson but still.

Greatest natural harbor... Mouth of the Mighty Hudson...Gateway to North America...you get the idea.

No2 - you are completely out of touch with what the community wants. Your definition of community is the small group that thinks like you (or kind of like you).

DAvoyager-

How can you put your faith into someone who time and time again has proven, beyond a doubt, he is not a man of his word?

I understand your wanting a school, however supporters like yourself have insured that this process has been railroaded.

Time and time again you have declared yourself a person of the community, and I take you on your word, however, your opinion about the view of the bridge is not shared by the community you live in. Have you considered that to get the school you want you should listen to your fellow community members, and work with them, rather than against them?

Other studies are necessary, such as what will the impact be of this building on the bridge's foundation? It's not just about the view.

Any indication as to when we'll see revised renderings?

I take it from your response that you won't take your own medicine. I'm not suprised. I guess we won't have to miss your insightful comments after all.

Still sticking to the speech you gave at the public Borough Hall hearing that anyone against the project is not a real Brooklynite?

Again: National Landmark will still be there completely undamaged and in full view for the public as before. To say otherwise is an out and out lie, and second: Without the school, there will be no contracts and no building period. That is my position. Write Yassky, Markowitz etc and make sure there can be no other result. The city council can make the zoning change absolutely contingent on the inclusion of at least 35k sq ft deeded to the city for the purposes of a school. If two trees backs out, so be it.

Me thinks DaVoyager suffers from tunnel vision.

DuhVoyager:

Claiming that the handful of people who might lose their view have "no place in this discussion" would be fine, as long as you extend your brilliant logic to also include the handful of people with kids who are willing to trade our National Landmark for a longshot chance that the developer might make good on his verbal promise for a shell so the corrupt SCA might build it out. Certainly you and Carlo make up two fingers of that handful.

So from here on out we won't be hearing from you?
I'll miss your insightful comments.

That kind of language is uncalled for.
First of all while the people who are losing their exclusive view is small they are among the most active opponents of this project and are largely responsible for drumming up the hysteria that exists today. These people should have no place in this discussion.
Second, the district 13 schools are all very far away from here as the district is this odd snaking thing crossing neighborhood lines without regard to geography. I have a friend in district 15 who's daughter has a 5 minute walk to a quality middle school. I'm not expecting a 5 minute walk but we should have a neighborhood school or at least one close enough to walk to where we as parents can participate without a 2 hour round trip.
And finally it is my understanding that the DOE will own this purposed school by contract. If we don't own the school the contracts don't get signed and the building doesn't get built period. So all the Walentas bashing is beside the point.

Furthermore, the whole notion of a Dock Street public school is like enabling a co-dependent relationship...

The community will be best served by a real public school.

There's no guarantee that my kid will have a seat at the Dock Street Middle School. All I have to gain is a chance that he will get a seat.

That's very different from selling an apartment for $3.2 million today (with a view)when the owner paid probably $2.2 million for it 4 years ago. Sorry, I'm not concerned with his profit. He should have read the offering memo as it explained that his view was not protected. If the greed card is called out on Walentas, let's be fair and call out the callers!

Back to schools, I will certainly look at all options when the time comes. Those options include existing middle schools in District 13, public schools in the city via a variance application, parochial and private schools.

As for the existing middle schools in District 13, it's fair to say they are not highly rated.

Why? - because folks like me (read white) have chosen not to participate in the public schools and have left those who remain (read minority) with poor resources and ultimate failure. This sad state of affairs rears its ugly head loud and clear at the middle school entry of 6th grade.

I moved here from a small town in Virginia some 23 years ago. I thought I was entering a community that cherished diversity. As a Catholic with a distinct Italian name, let's just say I didn't feel at home in the coalfields of Virginia. I thought New York's melting pot would be different.

Interestingly, we New Yorkers practice a form of segregation in 2009. It is starkly obvious in our district 13 middle school enrollments. That needs to be fixed.

Dock Street is a step in the right direction. That's why this school is important. That's why the diversity and foundation that exists at PS 8 needs to be continued. Children of all races, religions, ethnicities and economic backgrounds learn and play together. The value of that diversity is unlimited.

I had the honor of meeting Gov. Tim Kaine of Virginia recently. His wife Anne Holton is the daughter of Linwood Holton, the first Republican governor in Virginia since Reconstruction. On his first day in office in 1970, Linwood Holton enrolled his children in Thomas Jefferson High, an all black school in inner-city Richmond. I asked Ms. Holton what that was like. She described it as awkward but in the end, a great life lesson. The Kaine children are enrolled in public schools (note to David Yassky).

Believe me, I will consider all options when the time comes. And if an existing district 13 school is best for my son, he'll be enrolled there. In the meantime, I will continue to work to improve the public schools in my neighborhood. In my opinion that includes supporting the Dock Street proposal.

Hope that explains your concerns.

"Some folks in opposition would lose their views - let’s be honest about that. I’ll spare you the names but I am familiar with four off the top of my head. I know them. I’ve sat across from them at hearings. Most of them don’t send their kids to public school but insist they are advocates for public education. Sorry but that seems disingenuous to me."

Carlo -- let's be honest about the fact that a middle school with available seats exists for your kids. You just prefer not to send them to it because it's in the "wrong" location. And yet you insist you're an advocate for public education. Seems disingenuous to me.

Thanks Harry and Daddy Mack. I appreciate the info and perspective.

I've always assumed that Walentas is somewhere between the devil (as portraysed by many to an extreme) and the class bully. I'm sure he's no saint and to be fair, he's probably not the worst guy in the world either.

Of this I'm certain - Walentas isn't going anywhere. We all need to accept that. He's as much a part of the community as you or me. That needs to be accepted and dealt with.

One of the things that bothers me most about this whole situation is the opposition will not sit down and engage the man. I asked David Yassky a year and a half ago to sit down and negotiate with the guy. Perhaps that would bring other so called options for a middle school to the table. Yassky refuses and I'm left to conclude that he's covering his political ass. Here's a guy who has clout, can force things in writing and refuses to engage for his own purposes. That's not leadership in my book. He says he's for public schools but doesn't enroll his children in them. There's a disconnect that can't be ignored.

Some folks in opposition would lose their views - let's be honest about that. I'll spare you the names but I am familiar with four off the top of my head. I know them. I've sat across from them at hearings. Most of them don't send their kids to public school but insist they are advocates for public education. Sorry but that seems disingenuous to me.

The opposition has played dirty too - doctorted renderings, League story, threats of terrorist attacks if a school is built. It's all very disturbing to me.

I apologize as I'm sure I've fueled the fire.

My primary goal is this - let's improve public education. I'm convinced that a middle school at Dock Street will further the foundation that has been laid at PS 8. It will give parents who would otherwise not enroll their children in public school the encouragement to participate in a system that needs help.

I sincerely don't think that the proposed building will take anything away from the Bridge.

Thanks for the discourse.

For example, in 1985, allegedly owing to a personal vendetta, Lipper thwarted real estate developer David Walentas' plans to develop the Brooklyn waterfront. The story of Lipper's aggressive maneuvering against Walentas was the subject of a riveting May, 1985, New York magazine cover called "On the Waterfront." Lipper, say sources, blamed Walentas for the suicide of a friend they had in common, J. Frederick Byers III. Byers and Walentas had been business partners. But the sources also say Lipper may have been using the situation in order to befriend Byers' widow, the daughter of CBS chieftain William S. Paley, and her glitzy Park Avenue set, which included Byers' sister-in-law Amanda Burden and her then-husband, Carter, a businessman and Vanderbilt heir. Only since 1998 has Walentas been able to develop the part of Brooklyn situated down under the Manhattan Bridge overpass (DUMBO). Says Biderman: "Ken did what was in the city's best interest, in terms of trying to keep as many manufacturing jobs in Brooklyn as possible."

http://www.griequity.com/resources/InvestmentIndustry/WhistleExamples/lipper.html

Their posts have made me become a recovering troll, lol.

No need for the attacks anymore as they have more than shown that anyone supporting this project now is supporting corruption and pure greed. Greed that has had court action.

A school is needed in DUMBO and it would be a shame for those who have fought so hard for a school to be duped. Honestly, the community needs to come together on this- Building NO, School YES!

I apologize to those who I may have offended in my trolling ways.

Wow, Harry, thanks for that. I had no idea.

Thank you for your comments, Henry & Daddy Mack!

So how bout it duh, carlo and BL? What do you say to that? It seems these previous two posters have done a better job than me. They have eloquently pointed out why you and your 'school' supporters have been dealt a joker in a stacked deck.

I have been so sickened by this process that I have refrained from commenting for some time. However, I must say that Harry has cogently captured all that is reprehensible about Dock Street. Walentas is Gordon Gecko, replete with "greed is good" mantra and an ego so big that he simply MUST put his crass stamp on this national landmark. This banal building is not merely 75 feet from "the ramp" as Carlo disingenuously suggests. It is literally situated under and hard against the span before rising above the span, less than 100 feet away, between the Brooklyn anchorage and tower. And the politicians (apparently oblivious to the devastation that wanton real estate development has wrought thus far) simply hold out their hands, feign a thoughtful ethical review and then change the zoning rules so Walentas can build his giant middle finger. It's truly depressing.

Most, if not all, who have dealt with David Walentas throughout the years do not like or trust him. Nothing the man says can be believed. Here are some examples: 1) When he renovated the Sweeney Building, he "promised" the community he would retain the historic "Sweeney Building" signs atop the edifice. Oh, you don't know what the Sweeney Building is- exactly. Its 30 Main, and the words are obviously gone. 2) Look at what is going on right now on Atlantic Avenue- you're kidding with this one, right. Walentas gets shut down in his efforts to build higher than the zoning allows, so he builds higher anyway, gets caught, calls the additional height "bulkheads", not designed to be habitable, but then gets caught red handed because his people are selling the bulkheads as part of the units- boy, thats really respecting the Cobble Hill community, who have been up in arms against him, isn't it? 3) Look up Balcor Real Estate Holdings, Inc., v. Walentas 73 F.3d 150. Basically a Federal Appeals Court held that Walentas stole $100,000 when he accepted rent on a building, sold the building the next day, and then, through years of litigation, refused to return the money. The Court awarded attorney's fees to Walentas' opponent, something rarely done in U.S. Courts. 4) Ask anyone who ever served on the Board at One Main Street about Walentas' shenanigans there- the stories will amaze you. Spitzer's Attorney General's Office initially was going to go after Walentas for fraudulent representation, finding his actions reprehensible, and then, mysteriously, backed off, and suggested a compromise. Campaign contributions, anyone? Under threat of a lawsuit, after initially claiming compelte innocence, Walentas wound up paying in excess of $500,000 to the building to completely redo the facade. Ask any of th eowners of the 12th floor units abou tthe leaks and lakes they ahd in their units for years until the facade finally got fixed.
Obviously a middle school for our kids is important. But knowing Walentas' history, its quite clear that is a Trojan Horse. So is the affordable housing. Remember a few months ago when Atlantic Yards was still a real possibility, but the economy had started to tank? First thing Ratner did was announce that the affordqable housing was out. Whats to stop Walentas from doing the same thing? I was in a meeting once where Walentas said, "The negotiations start when the contract is signed". Do you really trust Walentas to come through with what he's promised, when he NEVER delivers, and do you believe the city's or the DOE's lawyers are strong enough (or have the will) to ensure the school will even be built? Doesn't it mean anything to anyone the discrepancy between what the DOE was saying about there being no need for a middle school, and having secret negotiations with Walentas on the side. My God, the guy's PR machine is unbelievable! If you oppose him, his shills say you live at 70 Wahington, and you're angry your view will be blocked. Does everyone live at 70 Wash???? If you point out that there is no guarantee, since our District is not in need of middle school seats, that the few seats created may not even go to the local kids, Walentas' minions call the opponents "racist" for not wanting to have kids from outside the neighborhood at the school, when in actuality if neighborhood kids will not be using the school, how is that a giveback to the community. He's offering a shell, and I promise you, if by some chance the contracts are written tight enough to get the school, if you're going to want doors, plumbing, electric hook-ups, etc, we're going to pay for it, not him. Why do I say that? When the original One Mainers moved in, there were no doors on the bathrooms or the closets- Walentas smiled and said "they're not in the Offering Plan". The owners bought their own doors. He's offering 30,000 square feet- the new PS 8 annex is 18,000 square feet, and includes just 7 new classrooms, no gym- NO KITCHEN, NO CAFETERIA. So when you lok at it, 30,000 square feet is not going to give you much of a school, is it?
This thing is just not necessary, it is not contextual, unless you want DUMBO to continue to turn into Manhattan, it is not necessary to do this to the Bridge. The neighborhood (w/the exceptions of some Walentas commercial tenants, and a few people who I guess... want big ugly buildings to mar vistas from the Bridge) have been very clear that we DO NOT WANT THIS THING. So Walentas buys off a few pols, contributes to Pratt, so that Pratt backs the project, trusts that people will forget his sins of the past (oh yes, I don't remember which issue date, but go back to an old NY magazine article where his partner committed suicide, and the mag cited many questionable ethical moves by Walentas.

Lets see if Chris Quinn has any backbone at all, and if she wants ANY support from DUMBO (other than Walentas who has contributred plenty to her al;ready) when she runs for Mayor. Thank you

huh?-

"you have behaved very badly on this site"

Ok, so now you are claiming some kind of moral authority?

Free Speech is my defense, sir.

And before you come with the "Free speech is to be nice" argument, protecting free speech is about protecting speech you disagree with, not what you may think is appropriate or not.

DA, BL and all the other proponents have as many rights to attack me as I them.

"but you are the only one of the trolls who claims to be shaking his fist from the highest of the high moral groun"

When have I claimed that? Please don't put words in my mouth.

"You are hurting your cause and turning off more people than you realize"

That statement defies logic. What you are suggesting is that people who oppose the project are now going to switch sides because of my rants? Not Two Trees arguments, not the arguments of the proponents, but my rants is what convinces them? That sounds ridiculous, and I almost shot water through my nose at the laughter I got from it, thank you ...I needed a chuckle.

"If “message boards” don’t matter then why are you spending so much time and energy shooting down every post that comes in? "

Because it amuses me to see people get all twisted on a board. Believe me, there is no credence to this board. Each side has been polarized and are firm in their beliefs.

"If your arguments were a bit more reasoned and balanced and you dropped the trollish sentiments you might actually help engage more people and entice them to join the opposition."

So here you are attempting to censor me. That's real cleaver, but if I sound unreasonable it is because I AM. It is not reasonable for a developer to buy land, well aware of the laws and decide to change them through bribes....ooops I mean 'lobbying'. The laws should apply equally to all.

No2Walentas2Trees -- you have behaved very badly on this site, and so have others, but you are the only one of the trolls who claims to be shaking his fist from the highest of the high moral ground. You are hurting your cause and turning off more people than you realize. If "message boards" don't matter then why are you spending so much time and energy shooting down every post that comes in?

If your arguments were a bit more reasoned and balanced and you dropped the trollish sentiments you might actually help engage more people and entice them to join the opposition.

huh?-

Thank you, but I really don't care. Hate is a very strong word and this may be something you should address yourself. My opinion is mine and that's it, much like your opinion is your own. Whether you agree with me, hate me or whatever, it is your own judgment. As for doing anything for or against the opposition....message boards don't matter in the greater scheme of things. This process is revealing what really matters and that is money.

Da, fair enough...you do have a valid reason and I won't comment any more on it. But a school is just a bargaining chip, and it's not a guarantee. If this thing does get built and no school comes out of it, then what? Would you be willing enough to admit that you were the one being duped?

The Roebling School of the Environment Dude,

That's what I want.

No2Rationalthought,
If you have actually read my posts you would know for me it's all about the school. When my PS 8 6th grade class graduated in 1967 the only public Jr. High school was a bus ride way past Brooklyn Tech and so most of the class dispersed to the burbs or private school and so on. Only a scant few of us went to the Fort Green Neighborhood School nearest to us. I guess we were too small a neighborhood to warrant our own school, and it was sad to see established good families with whom we have made friendships have to pull up stakes and find new homes all over this same school issue.
And now that I have a 7 and 4 year old and see the same pattern replaying the sad drama of families relocating over this same sad issue of no middle school choices.
And to get the same sad promises from politicians like Yassky and never get results. I would vote, dare I say it: Republican if I had to to vote against Yassky.

No2Walentas2Trees -- have to tell you that even when I agree with you I hate your posts. You clearly have strong feelings, but you're not doing much for the opposition side with many of your comments and attacks.

"Why do you hate Walentas so? What has he done to you? Your handle speaks volumes. I don’t know the guy that well. Please explain so we can all understand your pain."

Don't HATE the man, hate is a very strong word....I just don't think compromising a National Landmark is not a good idea, especially in light that all the designs for the building are ugly. It says a lot about the thought put into this building. Ugly buildings are going up everywhere.

"My support is based on studying his project and asking lots of questions. My interest is anchored by the great opportunity he is presenting for a middle school. The world would be a better place with great public schools."

Yes, but unfortunately, the DOE has lagged behind in the 'Great' public school category. They are all mediocre at best. First, there is no guarantee there will be a school.

Second, saying it will be 'Great' is a big assumption.


"Sincerely, the building in my opinion, doesn’t ruin the Brooklyn Bridge as proported by the opposition. It is a vast improvement to what exists there today. It is an acceptable use for the property as the CB 2 board voted and the NYC Planning Commission voted."

Fortunately, your opinion is not widely shared. CB2 has historically been bad for the waterfront, you need to do more research in this regard.

"Is everyone who disagrees with you shallow, evil or weak? "

I'm sorry, but I thought I was making myself clear....Yes!

Why do you hate Walentas so? What has he done to you? Your handle speaks volumes. I don't know the guy that well. Please explain so we can all understand your pain.

My support is based on studying his project and asking lots of questions. My interest is anchored by the great opportunity he is presenting for a middle school. The world would be a better place with great public schools.

Sincerely, the building in my opinion, doesn't ruin the Brooklyn Bridge as proported by the opposition. It is a vast improvement to what exists there today. It is an acceptable use for the property as the CB 2 board voted and the NYC Planning Commission voted.

Is everyone who disagrees with you shallow, evil or weak?

Please respond.

Wow Carlo, your last post just reaffirms how shallow you really are. You are a poster boy for everything that has gone wrong with this country.

Yassky, not only will get my vote, I will send him a check ASAP....it may pale in comparison to the megabucks that Two Trees has paid out, but it will be a simple gesture.

Marty, sorry, I rather have a politician that actually represents the borough.

Carlo...

Are you really that shallow? Then again you work in real estate, so I would say YES!

How can you possibly appreciate a national landmark? How could you possibly understand what preservation means?

No, you have no clue, you make judgments about people's appreciation of National Landmarks and call them silly.

You want to judge thousands based on one person? Do you and DA huddle together, wearing tin hats, thinking of ways the vast majority of people against what will be a eyesore have been duped?

By your logic, Walentas is right because he lives in the neighborhood? Perhaps you should talk to those who were here before dubya came to the area. You do understand that the name DUMBO was not his idea?

Hail Publius. Virtuous man of Brooklyn!

I thought my last post had some new facts to add to the discussion.

I agree with you, let's get some campaign-lobby reform going. Can you talk to your boy Yassky and tell him to ask his mother to stop sending me emails for a campaign donation. No wonder he hasn't found us a suitable alternative middle school site. I hope your crowd's not sending him checks - that might taint your noble cause.

The building will be 75' from the ramp of the Brooklyn Bridge. Sorry to correct you but even my weak mind and eyes can see that.

As for DC, a school next to the Washington Monument would be great. I can't think of a better place quite frankly.

Davoyager....


You know, you question the motivations and attack one celebrity who is against the project. You know, fair is fair, what are your motivations? Honestly, you state in other posts that you have been in the area for 50+ years....do you have kids? If so, are they old enough to attend this school whenever it does get built? Or, if you don't have kids, what then is your motivation to have a school built? I mean, fair is fair, you attack those against the project of having some agenda, then pray tell, WHAT IS YOUR AGENDA?

The school, like paying off politicians, is not really charitable giving -- it's a means to push through a previously rejected building design and make a pile of money.

Walentas' tax breaks over the last 8 years certainly exceed anything he is "giving" back to the community.

That being said, I think he is a good developer, but wrong about this project. I wish there was a compromise -- that the city could give him another lot further from the bridge to do this.

Yawn.

Carlo, you're still trying to peddle that tired argument of yours that the tens of thousands of people against Dock St./DUMBO are all 70 Washington condo owners losing their views?

If anyone believes that, I have a bridge I can sell them. Wait, too late, Two Trees already bought it with hundreds of thousands of dollars of lobbying money and "donations" to city electeds.

Interesting article in the NY Post today about all the bribes (I mean influence) money thrown around to get Dock St. through the ULURP proces:

http://tinyurl.com/djt5h8

Are you going to call McCullough a dottering old man led into opposing the project like your boy DuhVoyager did on the Brooklyn Paper talkback?

If a developer was planning to build a tower 75 feet away from the Washington Monument, another National Landmark, would you be disqualified from speaking out against it because you don't live in D.C.? Would you not have credibility?

What a specious nonesensical argument. But keep it up, maybe a few weak minded people will fall for it.

The individual homeowners of those apartments should have read their offering memorandums that specifically stated views were not protected. Many of us have invested a portion of our life savings in Brooklyn apartments, but we're not asking for a bailout.

Sorry if I'm annoyed but I understand one of the petition wavers has his DUMBO apartment with a view of the bridge on the market for $3.2 million. Who's greedy now?

This project will cost probably $200-250 million. A gift to the DOE of $50 million is 20-25% of the total project cost - pretty generous don't you think?

Walentas has paid taxes on these properties for years. He has donated the St. Ann's space for eight years. He lives in the neighborhood.

What has McCullough done for us? Move to Maine. Okay - he wrote a nice book. I'm sure he made a fortune from The Great Bridge.

The NYPost article is great.

Regardless of how one feels about Dock Street, all this sneaking around with SCA and paying off politicians does not lend credibility to the public process.

Furthermore, Two Trees stands to make 100s of millions on this project if not initially, then certainly over time... We are talking massive returns by leveraging a public school (maybe).

Trying to turn this on individual homeowners who have invested their life savings is absurd. There is plenty of credibility in someone like David McCullough if listening to people who would have to live near the damn thing is somehow suspect.

Maybe you can put the "thousands" of signatures in the window so the signatures will actually have a view of the bridge to be ruined cause there are no public views actually damaged by this modest and thoughtful project.

References to the building height should now read 17 stories. 170 feet to be precise.

To say that Dock Street will ruin public views of the Bridge is silly. What public views? Are the star and DNA President (both residents of 70 Washington) inviting the public over for popcorn and a movie? I must have missed that part of the press release.

Yes, Duh...the poor developer is getting hoodwinked by the rich community activists. Are you even on this planet? Her exclusive view happens to be shared by thousands of signatures, several neighborhood associations. Sorry, but your 'people who are against this aren't true brooklynites' argument already exposed how weak and pathetic your attempt at being a community person is.

Dock Street Project be gone!! No one in their right mind wants that eyesore - it will only benefit TwoTrees. School needs are a completely separate issue and should have never been tied to this project in the first place.

Funny. I thought "rich and powerful" referred to Two Trees' spending tens of thousands on lobbyists to buy City Council support for this awful project. And class warfare is trying to get an exclusive new middle school for kids in Brooklyn Heights when there are plenty of available seats at the existing middle school -- oh yeah, the one's located in the projects.

Unbelievable At least one of those "stars" has a lovely condo in 70 Washington with a spectacular view of the bridge and who's school aged child is in private school. That person is using her celebrity to rope in others to save their exclusive view. Have no doubt that this is class warfare and all about the privileged class trying to protect their privileges without regard to the needs of the greater community. Most unfortunate to see the middle class once again being stepped on by the rich and powerful.

Jerry; agreed. That is DNA's wording, not mine. But it does read as that. Unless it is meant as a subtle message, per Publius' comment about the campaign donations to some politicians.

I hate being a stickler about grammar, BUT, can I assume the sentence "Open Letter of Opposition to Mayor Bloomberg" is not meant to indicate opposition to the Mayor, per se, but to the Dock Street project? The sentence as currently composed seems to suggest the former. Sorry to be a pain, but . . .

The NY Post has an article today about how much money Two Trees throws around to bribe (er, I mean “influence”) elected officials and hire expensive lobbyists:


http://tinyurl.com/dzbzs3