Soundproofing Windows in Dumbo

December 3rd, 2007

Soundproof windows
 (Photo: DumboNYC)

A NY Times article on Sunday by C.J. Hughes gave mention to Dumbo’s J Condo at 100 Jay Street. C.J. Hughes writes about the increase of E Zones in NYC. “In 2007, 16 E zones were created, involving hundreds of blocks, versus four zones in 1996.” E zoning designation, typically means that it abuts a busy nonresidential area and that developers must take extra noise-abatement steps. Both J Condo and Beacon Tower are new condo developments in Dumbo that abuts the Manhattan Bridge on opposite sides. J Condo hired soundproofing consultants, Architectural Testing to minimize the bridge noise. Beacon Tower at 85 Adams Street hired Shen Milsom Wilke, a New York-based acoustical design firm, to evaluate and measure the site noise. Their windows feature heavy panes of laminated glass separated by eight inches of air space and rubber gaskets, to dramatically reduce the sound levels. According to Shen Milsom Wilke, it was found that sound levels intermittently peaked at 96 dBA due predominantly to the train passing by every few minutes at the 5th floor level.

With the proximity to the Manhattan Bridge, Brooklyn Bridge, and the Brooklyn-Queens Expressway, most of Dumbo is noisy, and many existing buildings have been around before zoning required extra noise-abatement steps. If you don’t live in one of the two new high-rises, you still have options for a quiet night at home or at your business. Two companies that soundproof windows in the Dumbo area are Cityproof and Citiquiet. I’ve spoken to several residents of Dumbo who have hired both to install soundproofing windows. In most cases, window frames that match the existing windows are installed in the framing or behind the exterior window, leaving alternating layers of air and thick glass. Ordering custom windows typically take 6-10 weeks for delivery, but installation takes a few hours. (Photo of installed soundproofing window above). Based on personal experience and talking with residents of J Condo, Beacon Tower and residents who soundproofed other older apartments, the windows make a huge difference. Walking into one of these apartments make one forget that there are any cars or subways outside of these apartments. One side effect of soundproofing — you notice more of your interior noise such as a noisy refrigerator and central fan while exterior street noise is kept out.

Cityproof
(718) 786-1600, Christopher Ulrich
www.cityproof.com

Citiquiet
(212) 874-5362, Marc Cohen
www.citiquiet.com

{Louder Life, Thicker Windows, 02Dec2007, NYTimes}

Filed in Brooklyn Bridge, Brooklyn Queens Expressway, Dumbo Residents, Manhattan Bridge at 9:15 am
View Comments
  • The Voice of Reason
    Hey here's an idea.. why don't we stop building fancy hermetically sealed buildings for the rich and collectively take our yuppie asses and move to Cobble Hill or something.

    Then we can build a bubble around it and walk around with 20 thousand dollar ventilators and drive noiseless cars so we don't have to deal with all those pesky "people" earning a living and anything remotely industrial because after all, that's what third world countries are for. They have no place here, in NYC and the greater metro area which is the most industrially dense area in the country.
  • dumbowner
    Dear Phony "Dumbowner" - to all that are not on to your game, allow us to clarify - you have not only taken to using the real name of a real person, in this case, Ms. Lenska, but you have also have impersonated us, "dumbowner" by using our name to post your idiotic comments as well. We suggest you indeed stop the madness - if you are experiencing an identity crisis to the degree that you feel the need to impersonate others - in this case, posting your comments in the name of other people posting on this blog, we urge you to get yourself some help. I don't believe anyone on this wonderful blog would appreciate your attribution of your own comments, to them. Not cool.
  • dumbowner
    Stop the madness. The real Rula Lanska is a British tranny and not some tool living in Dumpo. Did we tell you, we know her? As we say in Britain, I'm gonna "Rula" with my "Lanska".
  • Rula Lanska
    You might want to ignore Harold Hill as the Prof. is an idiot
  • Prof. Harold Hill
    you might want to check with T Bone and Thriving before you start your campaign.
  • stahari
    I moved to Dumbo a few months ago and live quite close to the bridge. I accept that I have to deal with the noise in an apartment, after all I went in eyes wide open. However, while I am walking the dog or using the park, the noise is alarmingly loud.

    To address this issue, I am considering putting together a petition for soundproofing of a portion of the span to the relevant authorities. As well, I am a practicing attorney and will be doing some research to determine whether there is a legal angle to pursue (repeat violations of noise ordinances in parks or in residential areas, etc...)

    If anyone is interested in joining me in this effort, please respond here. My email is sutahari@yahoo.com.
  • I was wondering
    Charmin. Ultra Strong or Ultra Soft?
    Anybody have any experience or opinion? I hate to make mistakes.
  • justaquestion
    Has anyone installed window guards?
  • prof h. hill
    Well thats just fine. I'm glad you're all so happy!
  • newbie to dumbo
    Thanks 10years in dumbo. Although I have been in Dumbo for a really short period of time, I think the neighborhood is great.
  • 10years in Dumbo
    oh, and i agree with tbone and thriving. certain areas of dumbo is noisy, and other areas are quiet. either way, i find it comforting. if you can't stand the noise, soundproof your windows. also there are more quiet neighborhoods in brooklyn.
  • 10years in Dumbo
    we went with cityproof but people i've talked to have been happy with citiquiet's work as well. both are similar. i've heard apartments with both and they block out noise pretty well. try negotiating with them since there isn't a set price for the windows. after researching both and finding them comparable, we went with cityproof because i liked the sales person.
  • newbie to dumbo
    What about Citiquiet? Anyone have any comments on them. I just moved in and got a very competitive quote from them.
  • prof h. hill
    this might be off topic but haveyouherdmentality is a whining little girl
  • Bobbybaby
    Yes I used Citiproof and it was helpful I cannot really hear the Bridge traffic anymore its nice at home except early morning trucks barreling over the bridge. I understand that the BB onramp is to be regraded in next year or so, it needs it and that will be helpful
  • haveyouherdmentality
    Well, I don't live there anymore; I moved in 2005, once I saw the cancer chart at the Community Board 2 office. I do, however care to let others know about the health risks of living in DumbO - an industrial neighborhood. T bone and Thriving are lucky that they get to leave the neighborhood to go to work...It's more the children who spend their entire day there that I would worry most about. Please review the Empire State Noise Study PDF above and note the dB levels - these are averages and still the levels are “clearly unacceptable general exposure to noise”. Also for pregnant women, this excerpt from wikipedia (i know, it's Just Wikipedia, but please consider it) "The fetus is capable of perceiving sounds and responding to them by motor activity and cardiac rate change. Noise exposure is deemed to be particularly pernicious when it occurs between 15 and 60 days after conception, when major internal organs and the central nervous system are formed." Find out more of the health risks associated with noise levels found in dumbO at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_health_effects
  • T bone
    My dear Harold (is that really you or an imposter?), We were simply responding to the above posters comment that walking outside in Dumbo causes stress, which for me, it doesn't. No one is denying that Dumbo is noisy. Personally, it does not bother me when I am out and about or inside my apartment. I am sorry I happen to enjoy living in Dumbo and am not bitter like some people. Can someone explain to me why people who are so anti-Dumbo continue to live there and to follow this blog?
  • prof h. hill
    I don't know why you two are ignoring the fact that this thread is about triple glazed soundproofing windows. Obviously sound is a big problem for a lot of people in this neighborhood. I don't know what hood you are skipping around in.
  • T bone
    I couldn't agree with you more, Thriving! The walk home at night down Washington relaxes me every time. The views of the bridge, very few cars, people walking their dogs or strolling with their kids. Love it.
  • Thriving
    Honestly, I find it unusually relaxing to be outside pretty much anywhere in DUMBO, including in the "boat park". Sure it's loud, but it's also relatively low-traffic, spacious (vertically, population-wise, etc) and beautiful. My stress level falls dramatically when I return home to DUMBO.
  • without the Overpass, living in dumbO would just be dumb. The EPA itself has deemed dumbo has "clearly unacceptable general exposure to noise"...of course, your RE agent didn't tell you that. Good luck to anyone with children (esp. if you use the"Ship" playground area). Please read all of the charts at: http://www.empire.state.ny.us/bbpdc/DEIS/17_Noise.pdf
    Also, anyone with children may be interested to know that Comm.Board 2 has maps indicating all local cancer cases posted by address. This map is littered with cases surrounding the BQE, the Manhattan Bridge, and the Williamsburg bridge. Just walking outside in dumbo deteriorates one's health through noise, stress, and air quality.
  • Mary
    Has anyone used cityproof or citiquiet for installing soundproof windows. What was your experience like and would you reccomend either company. Thanks so much.
  • dumbostreets
    The city has commited to congestion targets that will likely mean less traffic over both the Brooklyn and Manhattan Bridges. The cars themselves, will emit less emissions and noise as well. It is easy to be cynical about hybrid, hydrogen, and electric cars, but I believe the market is now driving this change.

    As for soundproofing... I've driven past so many suburban communities that have erected miles and miles of sound barriers along highways. Why can't the city work something like that out for elevated trains? NY has an aging infrastructure that needs to be upgraded in the next decade or so. The noise elevated trains make need to be addressed as part of this upgrade.

    No one is suggesting the Xmas tree will reduce noise, but I am glad the community is making such efforts.
  • prof h. hill
    Yes the noise is the biggest problem. I have lived here for almost 15 years and when I first moved here I thought the noise was no big deal, the loft I rented was so huge and cheap. I have come to believe that the noise is terminal. No amount of painted parks, xmas trees in said parks, art festivals with elephants will change the fact that the future of dumbo is the likes of Starship J Condo. Everybody in environmentally sealed tubes. Just another bedroom community with "ARTIST" painted on the banners hanging from the street lights. Wait till the zebras sell their vacant block to the highest bidder. Whatever goes in there will make J Pile look like a quaint little brownstone. It will only make the noise worse. Enjoy the tranquility while you can.
  • dumbostreets
    I've run the marathon twice over the QB bridge and now that you mention I don't remember a train! I assumed you were refering to this:

    "Active measures are taken by the contractor to reduce noise at its source, such as sound blankets, mufflers, sound screens"

    http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bridges/qbrehab.shtml

    Once again, noise is a big issue with all elevated trains and highways throughout the outer burroughs. Dumbo shares the same problem with many communities, so it seems something should be worked out as a matter of policy as infrastructure is upgraded over time.
  • Prof. Harold Hill
    dumbostreets, I was making a joke. subway trains were removed in 1942. trolleys were used until 1955. You should get out more often.
  • dumbostreets
    QB soundproofing was mostly to mitigate construction/rennovation noise; it was not a long term solution for the trains.

    On a slightly different tangent, do the infrastructure upgrades in the congestion pricing proposal include any sort of long term planning about elevated trains in the outer borroughs? There is also the larger issue of what to do with these aging elevate structures. If history is to serve as any sort of example, these structures were all eventually torn down and replaced in Manhattan.
  • Prof. Harold Hill
    They did a really good job soundproofing the qb bridge. You can't hear the trains at all.
  • BrooklynLove
    anyone know if a formal study/proposal has ever been done re enclosing train lanes in soundproofing on the manhattan, wb or qb bridges? if not, a formal proposal seems inevitable in view of the burgeoning resi communities in dumbo, wb and lic ...
  • Prof. Harold Hill
    Thanks inflammatory poster, I appreciate the reach around! As always.
  • inflammatory poster
    how dare you! Prof. Harold Hill is not a moron you dip sht. i'll build a soundproof studio around this blog and ban you if you insult him.
  • Anon
    Prof - no, its not a court of law; just a venue for people like you with no social skills to spew moronic comments.
  • I suspect that the time to apply any sound abatement treatments would have been the 12-18 months the B/D was truncated (I don't remember if there were no trains at all over the bridge or if it was just reduced service).

    Write to the MTA...
  • dumbostreets
    Soundproofing should enclose the train as it passes over dumbo. The train is already mostly enclosed and makes the most noise, by far. The best view, from the train, is when it is directly over the river, and nothing need to be done there. Acoustic cladding should by placed above, below, and beside the train as it approaches Dumbo (and other populated areas above ground). Note only would this make a big difference in Dumbo, be relatively cheap, but would probably reduce vibrations in the bridge itself meaning less wear and tear on the structure.

    This really should be a policy throughout the city regarding elevated trains. Doing this is vastly cheaper than running them underground, like Boston did. It is actually a pretty modest proposal.
  • Prof. Harold Hill
    Thanks for the reach around prof h. hill my son.
  • prof h. hill
    i'm an internet tough out to make virtual drama but building noise is the morning is loud
  • Prof. Harold Hill
    Another thing before I forget. Soundproofing a bridge is absurd! Are you all a bunch of metrosexual children!
  • Prof. Harold Hill
    EQ are you talking to us?
    Anyway I have used Cityproof in Soho and Union Square. They were a subcontractor on renovation jobs I was doing several years ago. No complaints and they have been around for a long time.
  • EQ
    Glad to see everyone is off the topic as usual- has anyone here used either of these companies? Would love any feedback as we would like to get these installed. Many thanks!
  • inflammatory poster
    res133, cnr one... sorry for not thinking! Of course, soundproofing would go under the bridge!

    Necessary, but insufficient.
    I've built soundproof studios, have you?

    If you have, I wish you go to one, and whine about the bridge noise there.

    What kind of person moves next to a bridge and then gets upset about noise?
  • prof h. hill
    Yea, its called common sense, you a**hole. Ask anybody who lived here before J Pile. What do you think this blog is, a court of law?
  • Anon
    Hey Prof, can you provide us with the results from what appears to be a very scientific noise study you conducted?
  • prof h. hill
    Thanks to that 800 pd. gorilla Starship J Condo (somebody stop me!) The noise has almost doubled, bouncing off all that Chinese brick and soundproof windows back on to Pearl. I just want to thank the turds that laid that pile in the neighborhood.
  • cnr one
    installation to absorb sound would go under the bridge. stay mad at everything.
  • res133
    Genius, the soundproofing of the bridge would be under the roadway not on the sides of the roadway..it wouldn't affect the views of anyone on the bridge. But, this would never occur as it would cost too much to appease too few.
  • adam
    heheheh
  • inflammatory poster
    yeah, why should anyone driving across the bridge enjoy views?

    Only the rich, who can afford overpriced apartments, deserve these views!

    Aesthetics are a privilege, not a right.

    We must stop the noise from this bridge they put up right next to my condo!
  • cnr one
    anyone know if there might be plans to improve noise as part of the manhattan bridge renovation?
  • dumbostreets
    How about putting acoustic cladding on the bridge itself ???? That would benefit everyone in Dumbo !
  • Anon
    I bet they are the only building in the entire city that takes out their recycling early in the morning, as opposed to putting it out at night so the bums can go through it and spread it all over the street and sidewalk.
  • 81 pearl (third world)
    I wonder if anyone from "starship" J condo reads this blog. While they kick back watching their uber HD screens sealed in tranquility their janitors are making a major ruckus in the alley next to 81 pearl. All night long they throw bags of bottles and broken up Ikea tables around. They are the only new building that takes their recycling out at 5 am Saturday morning. Tony the chief janitor is totally unresponsive, says people might break the bags open. Like the song says, "some people thinks their shit don't stank".
  • Anon
    Morons at the NYT incorrectly identify the building in the picture. It is definitely J Condo.
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