DUMBOWatch Gets in Brooklyn Paper Publicity
November 2nd, 2007
Peter Sunwoo and the DUMBOWatch committee were featured in not one but two stories about safety and panhandlers in Dumbo in today’s edition of The Brooklyn Paper. The stories, written by Adam F. Hutton, referenced this website, but didn’t mention us (but it’s okay, we don’t feel left out or anything). The Dumbo BID hosted a crime prevention seminar last week to educate the public (businesses and residents) about how to protect themselves. A commenter, T Bone, gave us this report:
“the cops say they are on our side and want to get rid of the panhandlers as much as we do, but they say they can’t do anything about it legally. My question was why are the cops so darn friendly with them, then? Doesn’t exactly discourage them. Bottom line is we need to report any incidents right away- if they get aggressive or spit on you etc, etc, call 311 or 911 and file a complaint!
They did have some helpful tips on how to stay safe- mostly common sense though.
There are also community meetings that the 84th precinct commanding officer attends that residents should attend to voice their concerns.”
The group’s concern is in crime prevention. Panhandling isn’t a crime, but if they’re harassing pedestrians daily or if the community can prevent just one incident from happening, DUMBOWatch isn’t going too far in calling 311 when panhandlers start throwing things or endangering an innocent pedestrian. It’s been said by people on some posts before, but we shouldn’t criminalize people before committing an illegal action. However, if there is criminal activity such as drug use or violence, we as a community should take action. Thriving says it best:
“Personally, I think the best we can do in this situation - without compromising our commitment to constitutional freedoms for all - is to refuse to reward panhandlers with money and positive attention for their panhandling, and to continue the conversation with law enforcement/businesses/the community about those panhandlers that are particularly problematic so that we achieve enough of a boycott of the behavior that they leave for greener pastures.”
{New group starts ‘watching’ DUMBO, Brooklyn Paper}
{The DUMBO panhandle: Beggars choose rich nabe to ply trade, Brooklyn Paper}
{DUMBOwatch Established to Keep DUMBO Safe, 26Sept07, DumboNYC.com}
{Talking about Safety in Dumbo, 07Sept07, DumboNYC.com}
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November 2nd, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Leave me alone
November 2nd, 2007 at 12:47 pm
not trying to sound cruel or anyhting, but the solution is rather simple - no one gives any money and evetually the issue will take care of itself.
November 2nd, 2007 at 12:52 pm
Try not giving them money, and watch them resort to violence and intimidation to extract it from you. I’ve been on the receiving end of some abuse from Smokey (the bum in the picture) and it was not pleasant at all.
November 2nd, 2007 at 12:53 pm
I’ve seen that man in the bank!! Is he really a panhandler? He obviously does very well out of it..
November 2nd, 2007 at 1:07 pm
I can’t see the pic!
November 2nd, 2007 at 1:09 pm
Here’s a color version:
http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/30/43/30_43panhandlers.html
November 2nd, 2007 at 1:11 pm
I’ve heard he is actually a hedge fund manager who got fired in the recent sub-prime crisis. That would certainly explain his financial acumen.
November 2nd, 2007 at 1:16 pm
I saw him handing a large roll of dollar bills to a very skinny, unhealthy looking female panhandler the other day. Actually it was quite a lot of cash..
November 2nd, 2007 at 1:42 pm
The skinny woman is “Cracky” his counterpart.
November 2nd, 2007 at 1:46 pm
I thought that skinny woman was a artist, who is on drugs living in a Dumbo loft. She wears designer jeans so she must have money.
November 2nd, 2007 at 1:47 pm
My wife and I have very recently witnessed him showing off a new ipod and joking with a FedEx driver about how much he makes begging while opening his sweatshirt pocket to expose his earnings with great pride.
I am all for philanthropy but unless people stop giving them money they will continue to linger and their success can only lead to more panhandlers showing up to get a cut of the “marketplace”.
If we see people giving them money perhaps we need to speak up to those fueling this problem by politely reminding them that volunteering at a food kitchen or any of the other numerous and legitimate NYC charities is a much better form of helping those truly in need.
November 2nd, 2007 at 1:55 pm
Apparently, “Cracky’s” drug of choice is actually heroin.
They are both making out very well, although I am not sure who is still giving them money or why. There are MUCH better ways of helping the less fortunate than giving these two a few dollars. It’s supporting their drug habits. And if you don’t believe that, then YOU are smoking crack.
I think a lot of the people handing out money are visitors and tourists, but I have definitely seen Dumbo residents giving them money. The cops mentioned this at the seminar and they are right-there are people in the neighborhood that act like they are best buds with Cracky and Smokey. I just don’t get it! This is not helping the situation. It will only lead to more panhandlers in the ‘hood.
November 2nd, 2007 at 1:57 pm
Why doesn’t DUMBOwatch print out a load of ‘wanted’ posters with his picture on, attach a few words on why people shouldn’t give him money, and plaster it all over the neighborhood? Seems a perfectly legal and effective way to ’smoke’ him out of our nabe.
November 2nd, 2007 at 2:02 pm
This is what happens when you get a neighborhood full of ultra-liberal, effete ‘intellectuals’. Dumbo is your property, you can act exactly how you want, so go clear these criminals out whichever way you can. Otherwise the scourge of criminality will begin to overwhelm Dumbo.
November 2nd, 2007 at 2:35 pm
we need Rudy back !!!
November 2nd, 2007 at 3:01 pm
Hold on now…is Smokey the guy in the pic with the bourne ult shirt on?
November 2nd, 2007 at 3:03 pm
No, I’m Smokey!
November 2nd, 2007 at 3:04 pm
Yes that is indeed Smokey, Lord of Dumbo
November 2nd, 2007 at 3:04 pm
Everyone is going to have mixed views on this situation, especially with the holiday season coming up. But the best advice is what is written in the article - by giving handouts, you’re an enabler. I see people chatting it up all the time with these folks. “Smokey” takes the F train here with his Nike gym bag and backpack. The goods in DUMBO are good apparently and this is why they keep coming back. And yes, Smokey bares a striking resemblance to the guy in the newspaper article.
November 2nd, 2007 at 3:11 pm
I was wrong.. I thought Smokey’s rather unhealthy companion was named Cracky. However, I just delved into the archives and found the original post where our two friends were first named.
http://dumbonyc.com/2007/06/25/pearl-street-triangle-plaza-begins-work/#comment-23915
So the ‘God Bless You’ lady is not Cracky? I think the need for some kind of photographic lineup is becoming even more pressing.
November 2nd, 2007 at 3:39 pm
I agree. On with the photos of the infidels!
November 2nd, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Thurston - next time just tell him that you’ll give him money if he stops beating you and then when he relents yell PSYCH and be out.
November 2nd, 2007 at 3:58 pm
I make more than $1 million a year, why should I have to put up with this? For god’s sake, get these bums out of the neighborhood.
November 2nd, 2007 at 4:20 pm
What is so hard to understand? Panhandling is legal. Giving money to panhandlers? Perfectly legal and entirely within anyone’s rights. Chatting up the panhandlers? Legal too, thankfully. So keep fretting over this non-issue, print all the ‘Wanted’ posters that you want, launch as many watch groups as you deem necessary - the bums are not going anywhere.
November 2nd, 2007 at 4:49 pm
No one said giving money to panhandlers is illegal. Stupid- yes. Illegal- no. Please do something constructive with your money. I’d be happy to give you a list of charities that help those in need, in ways that won’t go right into the pockets of drug dealers.
You know what is also legal? Discouraging people from giving money to the drug addicts that hang out on your street.
Actually, panhandling within a certain distance of a bank or atm location is illegal. Verbally harassing or threatening someone is, in many cases, committing a crime.
For many people, and rightfully so, having drug addicts hang out in front of your home every day is an issue. How you can see that as a non-issue is beyond me.
November 2nd, 2007 at 5:44 pm
I’ve lived and worked in DUMBO for 3 years and have never been threatened, harassed or otherwise pressured into giving money. (I never do, but that’s only because I’m cheap. Giving out hard earned money to bums is anyone’s prerogative, and I will fight for their right to do so). If threats are such a common occurrence, where are the police complaints to prove it? And how do you know they are drug addicts?
November 2nd, 2007 at 5:54 pm
I know that guy, I do chat with him from time to time. I do give him and his wife some bucks IF I have it to give.
I WISH…HEAR ME…I REALLY WISH some would say something to me about it. I DARE YOU.
This is New York City! Gets some f***ing heart. If you don’t want to give, Then DON’T
Some of you people are BITCH-MADE. “EEEWWWW the homeless people are scaring me”
They are harmless, I’ve never came close to feeling threatened.
I’m more offended by the elitist running rampant in DUMBO. But you know what? I just simply ignore them.
November 2nd, 2007 at 5:56 pm
I agree everyone needs to stop giving. I know it sounds mean, but that is the only way they will change their location.
It’s amazing that the cops can’t do anything to help in this situation, yet they can arrest an artist for drawing with chalk on the sidewalk in Park Slope.
November 2nd, 2007 at 6:30 pm
JonBoy,
Making over million a year does not entitle you to anything.
Most people that live in this community are well above average earners in their careers; perhaps some substantially more than you, and many substantially less than you….I note our artist neighbors in the community.
Simply put, everyone in this community has to deal with the scourge of panhandling; day in and day out.
If all we can muster up is saying “we are rich, and should not have to deal with this”, then we are not exactly going win any sympathy from the cops, or anyone else for that matter.
That is why just saying no when Smokey and Cracky ask, and reporting any violent behavior or threats is so vital. If you witness a suspected drug deal by them, call it in..maybe they will finally get busted for possession or something.
November 2nd, 2007 at 6:51 pm
i have to cross the street to avoid them. i don’t give them money, but somehow they stick around, so it must be paying off. i’ve seen the female pandhandler wearing $180 denim… oh right, maybe she got lucky at the salvation army.
November 2nd, 2007 at 6:58 pm
I either walk on the other side, don’t look at them, or give them the I’m on my period Evil Eye. All 3 methods work. I’ve lived here for 6 years and haven’t been attacked but would still love to see them GO!
November 2nd, 2007 at 8:51 pm
ya got trouble! Trouble I say! Right here in River City!
November 3rd, 2007 at 9:05 am
Dumbodweller- have you ever offered them food or an odd job to make some money or any other kind of help then a few dollars? Then all you are doing is enabling their drug problems, which is not helping anyone. They are both physically able to work, so why don’t you help them find jobs? I am sure they won’t want your help- why actually get a job when you are making so much money for doing nothing?
Most of us here do have heart and we do care about those less fortunate (at least I do). But we know there are better ways of actually helping people. These two don’t bother me personally, but I have seen them be verbally aggressive to others and I have heard stories from my neighbors. I am sorry if you think it makes me a horrible person for not wanting them in front of my home day in and day out.
Anyone who thinks they are not drug addicts have clearly not read all the posts on this blog or spoken to your neighbors. Next time you chat them up, why not ask them about their drug use? Actually- why don’t one of you who are such good friends with them find out their stories and tell us. What has happened in their lives that they became panhandlers? Have they tried finding jobs? Where do they live? (I doubt they are actually homeless).
November 3rd, 2007 at 9:44 am
“Anyone who thinks they are not drug addicts have clearly not read all the posts on this blog or spoken to your neighbors”: wow, that’s indisputable evidence! If a bunch of over-mortgaged condo owners obsessed with their property value say the bums are drug addicts, then it MUST be true.
November 3rd, 2007 at 10:55 am
Mike, a typical hand wringing yuppie pretending to be on the side of justice. Where is yo street smarts Oprah!
November 3rd, 2007 at 12:19 pm
I don’t like this couple, but I don’t find them scary. While I have been very troubled in the past by posts from people who claim to have been physically and/or verbally threatened by this pair, I have never personally witnessed or experienced any aggression from them. I am starting to doubt the truth of some of the complaints I’ve read on this site, especially those that were not followed up by a call to 911.
If this couple has truly lashed out at some members of this community, then the only thing that will hasten their removal is due diligence of the part of every witness and every victim — please call 911 right away and file a proper police report if you are physically or verbally threatened by this pair. And if you see this couple getting aggressive with another pedestrian, walk up and get in the conversation so, 1. they know people are watching them, and 2. no one is left standing there alone to deal with a frightening or potentially dangerous situation.
November 3rd, 2007 at 11:39 pm
And it MUST be true that we are all over mortgaged and obsessed with our property values! Wow, a bit of a over-generalization, don’t you think? Sorry, but when I hear several stories coming from different people, I tend to believe them.
Look, if you can prove to me that they are not drug addicts and their is a legitimate reason why they can’t work for their money, then more power to you.
I will definitely report what I see to the cops (as I have done in the past), but I am definitely not getting involved in a conversation with them when they are being aggressive with another person. They don’t bother me now, and I am not giving them any reason to.
Prof Harold Hill- while I appreciate your Music Man reference (I am big music theatre fan), you don’t know anything about me, so please don’t presume to.
November 4th, 2007 at 11:01 am
I don’t need to prove you anything, T bone. In fact, the burden of proof lays squarely on those who contend that the bums are engaging in unlawful behavior. In the meantime, whether or not they have a legitimate reason to beg for money is irrelevant.
November 4th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
It is totally relevant, not legally, but whether or not you are smart to give them money.
My point is you can do what you want obviously, but in my eyes, there are MUCH more constructive ways to give your money to the less fortunate. That is all I am saying. If you can show me that there is a legit reason you should be giving them money, other than that it makes you FEEL like you are doing something good, then I am totally behind you.
Personally, I think you are just pissed that the so called “yuppies” have moved into your neighborhood and therefore, you are simply trying to find reasons to argue with them. The yuppies don’t like the panhandlers, so let’s defend them and get on their side! Your need to insult people and use ridiculous generalizations in your posts leads me to believe this. You have shown me no reason why these two deserve money for doing nothing. That is all I ask.
How about the person who works every day struggling to support their family, the kid who works to put himself through school, the cancer patient who can’t afford their medical bills- these are the people who deserve and need our help. How about the guy who works for my company who is in a medically induced coma with burns all over his body, who lost everything in gas explosion in his home, and whose wife is about to give birth? THAT guy needs and deserves our help. From what I have seen and heard over the past year or so of these two panhandlers, they do not fall into that category. I would love for you to prove me wrong.
November 4th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
This may fall on deaf ears if you don’t own a car, but the biggest crime in this town is how easy it is to get TOWED. Three times in 6 months and I’m a careful parker.
Why are there so many NYCPD tow trucks prowling through our neighborhood? When I walk through Brooklyn Heights I never them. Is it because it’s a more affluent neighborhood and the people there are well connected and wouldn’t stand to have their cars be towed? I’d love to see the stats. We’re getting gouged by the NYPD here.
November 4th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
JonBoy is ruining the neighborhood.
With that attitude, I wonder how many people you rip off every year to make your millions…
November 4th, 2007 at 7:45 pm
I asked one of the local register guys how much $ they seem to make because they trade in their change for cash a few times a day. He thought about $3-4 an hour. When I walked by Smokey the other day, Cracky was telling him they should get going but he said he hadn’t quite made his $50 yet. I’ve seen the iPod and pretty big wads of cash from my window.
It’s great if you want to help the needy but these two are hardly that. This is a lifestyle choice, not something forced upon them.
The neighborhood delivery guys seem to know a lot about them as they seem them over in the projects where they live.
November 4th, 2007 at 7:52 pm
1/ As I have stated before, I do not give them money, but if I did I really wouldn’t care whether or not you find them more deserving than a widowed cancer patient who just lost his home in a gas explosion. Newsflash: none of the involved parties (bums or bum enablers) is seeking YOUR approval. 2/ I am one of the so-called yuppies, just one who’s a bit more attached to civil liberties than most people posting on this board, apparently.
November 4th, 2007 at 9:09 pm
“…I am definitely not getting involved in a conversation with them when they are being aggressive with another person. They don’t bother me now, and I am not giving them any reason to.”
Very neighbourly of you, T bone. Leads me to believe that you’re not as concerned about the safety of the neighbourhood in general as you are about your own backyard. I’m a woman, a “yuppie”, and a parent and I would get involved if I saw them trying to scare another person.
November 4th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
seriously — what the hell are people always talking with these two about? I am constantly seeing them high fiving and hunched over chatting with people in the neighborhood. what could people be discussing with these guys? i just think its so bizarre that people want to be buds with them. they are so clearly manipulative and calculating.
November 5th, 2007 at 5:06 am
Joe E: walk down Hicks on a Wednesday morning. There’s frequent towing on Hicks, less so on Henry. Pineapple and Orange get less focus. Wednesday a.m. there’s 4-5 tow trucks waiting for people to forget to move their cars by 8:00
November 5th, 2007 at 9:23 am
Its a short drive from the NYPD car pound to DUMBO. The cops can fill their quota in only a few blocks!
November 5th, 2007 at 11:41 am
Vinegar Hill Res- I care about my neighbors and if I thought someone was going to be hurt, then yes, I would absolutely get involved if I thought I wasn’t going to put my unborn child at risk. I would at least try to get the attention of other people and/or the cops. I would also always call 911 (as I have). My point was if they were verbally harassing someone, I would get the cops involved, not go up and get involved in the conversation. A lot safer for everyone than putting myself in the middle.
I think you really jumped to conclusions about me there.
Mike- never said you or anyone else is seeking my approval. It is simply my opinion. You are more than welcome to disagree, not care or not even listen. And I am all for civil liberties. Just as it’s within their rights to ask you for money, it’s within my rights to discourage people from giving it to them. (If you are one of the so-called “yuppies”, why do you make generalizations about them? You should know better.)
November 5th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
AnnC- I’m not sure why I am even taking the time to acknowledge your comment–considering your previous posts about the “inherent criminality” of the poor, or the drug addicted, or um… anyone who doesn’t have your skin color. Despite the belief of many on this blog, Dumbo isn’t one giant Condo–it’s a neighborhood, a public domain where people from all strata of life have every right to walk the streets, congregate, use the parks… and unfortunately beg for money. That said, I understand the frustration of many with regard to the P&P crew… and these instances of intimidation should be taken seriously.
November 6th, 2007 at 11:50 am
If enough people were to give oh lets say a 10 dollar donation. A black caddy would pull up and some individuals with instruments that can cause some significant pain would make it very clear that if cracky and smookey do not leave FOREVER, a return trip will not be so pleasent.PROBLEM SOLVED!!
November 6th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
Panhandler Exterminator - is that a service you could offer? How mcu would you charge?
November 6th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
if panhandlers disappear and people miss them, i can put in place a fresh supply for a minimal cost of a few dollars an hour
November 6th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Is there any way we can outsource our panhandling problem? Maybe pay ‘Smokes and Cracks’ to go stand on a corner in Mumbai and intimidate a few locals there?
November 6th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Excellent article on the futility of giving money to NYC panhandlers/crack addicts:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E07E0DE153EF937A35751C1A96F958260
November 7th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
That article was purely anecdotal, and a poor example of why we shouldn’t give. Who’s to say one can’t give to a more “established or reputable” charity AND a person in the street. Who’s to say that a person receiving service from a charity service won’t go out and buy drugs with their benefits. WE JUST DON’T KNOW.
I’ve been thinking about this post over that past few days, and was disturbed by the attitude of many of the comments. They are reflective of “high and mighty” types of people I see walking around the area.
I have seen EXACTLY 4 different panhandlers in frony of P&P. The aforementioned “Smokey and Cracky” and two different guys in wheel chairs. AND they are never all there at the same time. DUMBO is not over run with panhandlers.
November 7th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
To Panhandler Exterminator…Yeah, thats the ticket…Lets make em an offer they can’t refuse.
November 7th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
How about organizations that aim to provide sustainable aid to those in need? The Doe Fund and Project Renewal are two good ones that come to mind. Organizations like City Harvest and the Coalition Against Hunger are always looking for volunteers. Generally, even these organizations have programs to help the homeless, mentally ill and drug addicted make permanent changes, in addition to providing short term help.
I just don’t think giving cash to Smokey and Cracky is the best we can do. Sorry if you think that makes me a bad person.
November 7th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
I can’t believe these people got press. Small press, but press nonetheless…pathetic.
November 7th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
ya got trouble! Trouble I say!
November 7th, 2007 at 7:31 pm
I saw cracky and smokey blowin each other in the alley today.
November 7th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
I knew it.
February 8th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
leave me some t-bone!
yum
February 9th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
For God’s sake! I’m trying to sell my apartment and you people start up again with all these ner do wells. Mummy says I’m dipping into principle and I’ll be giving handjobs outside the F train station if I don’t sell!
February 9th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Cracky’s previous career was to prostitute herself to the garbage truck drivers that used to deliver to Chambers Paper Fiber. Saw her doing it for years! Now she’s kissing babies. Life in DUMBO gets better and better……………………
February 9th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
Yeah, what happened to this Peter guy…Mr. DUMBO Watch stirred the pot and then disappeared. Where are all the pics of Smokey, Cracky, and Bumbo that he promised?