Dumbo Named Best Manhattanized Brooklyn Neighborhood

October 19th, 2007

The Village Voice came out with their annual Best of NYC 2007 guide. The Dumbo neighborhood made the list, named “Best Manhattan Neighborhood In Brooklyn – DUMBO”. I’m not sure whether or not this is a good thing, but they do mention that Dumbo has a “residual sense of the industrial picturesque, a nostalgic desolation”.

Here’s the Village Voice article:

“Atlantic Yards may yet turn downtown Brooklyn into a soulless new Herald Square, but as of now, the borough’s most Manhattanized neighborhood is the 15-square-block area that for several decades has boasted the acronym DUMBO (as in “Down Under the Manhattan Bridge Overpass”). Down below Brooklyn Heights, and abutting the remnants of genteel Vinegar Hill, DUMBO is a waterfront mix of reconverted 19th-century factories and mega-warehouses towering over narrow, still-cobblestoned streets. It’s as dense as Manhattan, as expensive as Manhattan, as convenient as Manhattan (if you don’t mind walking), and will soon be as overbuilt—possibly tomorrow. What DUMBO has that Manhattan doesn’t is a residual sense of the industrial picturesque, a nostalgic desolation (galleries and theaters notwithstanding), a main street called “Main Street,” and its own strip of East River beach. DUMBO also offers that most narcissistic of New York pleasures—a fantastic view of the skyline.”

Of course people come to Dumbo for various reasons, and some long time residents don’t like the changes that are happening in Dumbo. Many choose to be in Dumbo because of its creative community and the fact that it’s not another soul-less, sterilized Manhattan neighborhood. Others move to Dumbo for it’s Manhattan-like convenience (first subway stop from Manhattan, luxury condos, boutiques, shops, and services). My question: If Dumbo is the best Manhattan neighborhood in Brooklyn, what’s the best Brooklyn neighborhood in Manhattan?

{Best Manhattan Neighborhood In Brooklyn – DUMBO, Village Voice}

Filed in Dumbo Residents, Dumbo in Media at 7:42 am
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  • Mud Farmer
    This will not be a problem once DUMBO has been landmarked.
  • Andrew Porter
    I live "above" you people in Brooklyn Heights -- and wandered your neighborhood when it was industrial, more than 30 years ago. (The OEM aka Purchase Building was for generations of artists a great place to swipe cast-off NYC office equipment, signs, industrial stuff.) My greatest concern about DUMBO is that it is so low, so near the water. The first time a major Nor'Easter or, Godhelpus, a hurricane, comes up the East Coast, with its accompanying storm surge, will the neighborhood survive? Will people want to live in an area which is subject to periodic flooding? How many people who live on low floors near the water have flood insurance?
  • Chow
    Yes, we have an overpriced hair salon with questionable customer service. I for one would support a good salon in the neighborhood.
  • Cool, Thanks guys while trying to give DUMBO a huge big-up for being great while understanding the lack of want for "Manhattanization" that may or may not be happening. I ended up having to defend my values. Oh! And clarify my stance on dirt, crime and a good time.

    "DUMBO - Best Manhattanised neighborhood in Brooklyn" is Bo**ocks! The title can only be appreciated by people that care about how they live in relation to Manhattan. For the readers familiar with London - imagine if a title was awarded to "Best North of the river neighborhood South of the Thames” that would be a massive joke (especially to a South Londoner).

    I like DUMBO! I hope it does get cleaner and safer. I have a young family so want all the services mentioned within walking distance. I just hope that the greasy burrito place on Jay St does not turn in to a Wine Bar.

    As a person from London looking to open a hair salon in DUMBO I have mixed feelings about the future of this hood.

    Just to check. Is there a hair salon in DUMBO? Would the introduction of one be seen by both, the creative, poor struggling, dirty, crime loving, hardcore puritan originals of DUMBO and the affluent Manhattan wannabe, buggy pushing, condo seeking newcomers as a good thing? Or just more invasive “Manhattanization” (If you don’t get my tone in this question you best not respond – or brush up on your Brit wit).
  • T bone
    First of all, I personally never once said I want a post office right in Dumbo. I generally use the post office near my office when necessary, so I don't really care either way. But actually, yes, in the suburb where my parents live, there is a post office about 6 blocks away. And in the suburbs where there is not one in walking distance there is usually a post office, drug store, large grocery store, etc within a 5-10 minute drive. And people have cars in the suburbs! Everything is convenient. DUH!

    My point was- wanting BASIC amenities nearby and convenient to get to has NOTHING to do with Manhattan or Manhattanization. If you would like to see my household income, I would be happy to show you because your idea that Dumboites can't afford Manhattan could not be further from the truth. Not that it really matters- it is totally beside the point- just something you made up as a way to insult us.

    The bottom line is, we chose to live in Dumbo for many reasons, but we also hoped that more BASIC amenities (drugstore, restaurants, maybe a post office, etc) would become available as more people moved into the neighborhood. That is exactly what is happening, and we are happy about it (at least I am).

    Besides, there are many neighborhoods in Manhattan, all of which are quite different. So the idea of "manhattanization" really makes no sense.

    Nothing lasts forever, but I for one am happy with the current direction Dumbo is going in. Sorry that you are not. Might be time for you to move! Your constant need to insult people who are different than you says a lot about you, so personally, I would be happy not to have you as neighbor.
  • Chow
    You're pretty funny.

    The post office is farther than 6 blocks away.

    I've been here for 6 years and my loft, view, and neighborhood character hasn't changed one bit. It's more crowded now, and thankfully has more amenities, and that's about it.

    Personally I have no problem with my new neighbors. I thank all of them for their business and welcome them to the hood. I knew the desolation wouldn't last and I'm not whining about it.

    It asinine to believe people who want basic PO/drug store/food delivery amenities in their neighborhoods have "Manhattan envy". It sounds to me like you have "something else envy". Mhmm.
  • inflammatory poster
    You have a post office 6 blocks away... are you saying in the suburbs people have a post office six blocks away? (duh, they don't!)

    And you don't need it either. But since you really wanted manhattan but couldn't afford it, you want it. Because you want everything just a few steps away. And when you get every little thing your heart desires you will look around, and you won't find that same view, that same character, or even that same loft. And I will then say to you "Well, did you really think it was going to last?"

    "I don't think anyone here is trying to build manhattan"... well, that's what you're doing, whether or not you want (or have the capacity) to see that I guess is another issue.
  • T bone
    I guess I just don't care about "cool" that much.

    You are right, it's a great neighborhood! I am looking forward to your family friendly salon!
  • Thanks Sue

    I will come to Dumbo soon and check out some spaces so I can open my "family friendly fun salon" soon.

    Sorry to the other posters on this page. I thought about it and I don't know the history of Dumbo well enough to comment.

    It is a great neigbourhood. All folk living in it should be thankful that a location this close to the centre of the city has held out as long as it has.

    T-Bone and Matt need to understand that my saying "Dull" was what I thought would happen if the whole area gets gentrified. However many soires "family fun days" you have it will never be as cool as it is with the current amount of artists that will soon be priced out of DUMBO.

    Just to ensure that readers understand I am not wanting dirt and crime to have a good time.
  • Chow
    I moved here for the character, loft space, and views and the lack of amenities like food delivery, PO, drug store, etc has ALWAYS sucked.
  • T bone
    Most neighborhoods have basic amenities (even in the suburbs!), so I don't see how that is "Manhattanization". And I don't think anyone here is trying to build Manhattan.
  • inflammatory poster
    The question isn't about me, and my taste for the neighborhood... or my success.

    The question is, what did you like about DUMBO that made you come here instead of manhattan, because you seem to be trying to build manhattan.

    Everything you say about me "didn't you see it coming"... will be said about you. If there's something you like about dumbo, it probably is due in some part to dumbo's lack of amenities.

    So yes, nothing wrong with wanting a post office or any amenity for that matter, steps from your front door. But there is a saturation point that you won't even like... that's why you came here in the first place.
  • T bone
    There are tons of events and things happening now in Dumbo- yes, a lot of them "clean and safe" and family friendly- but I personally wouldn't put Dumbo in the "dull" category.

    I'll take clean and safe any day!
  • SueB
    Michael, I hope you come to Dumbo! we could use a cool salon in Dumbo. we don't need any GAPs or any more banks.
  • Sorry Matt, "clean, safe and dull"
  • Matt
    If by "dull" you mean clean and safe, I like dull.
  • SweeneyBob
    hmmmmm... inflammatory poster... I smell a frustrated, unsuccessful (likely untalented) artist. Anyone else?
  • I visited DUMBO from London while working as a hair stylist on a fashion shoot in December 06. I had little time to look around but oddly fell in love with it. More than any of the Manhattan neigbourhoods I am familiar with.

    Coming from Notting Hill in West London I see gentrification all around me. The only sad true fact as I see it is that as the rent increases an area gets dull. All thess 28 comments about artists not liking whats going on and yuppies wanting a post office is pathetic.

    "Wake up and smell your over-priced Latte" it is what it is. Its been going on since your great grand daddy arrived...

    I'l see you in DUMBO (as long as a Gap is not in my space first) when I open my NY salon.
  • ancient
    If you care about DUMBO please attend the Landmarks Preservation Commission hearing on October 30th, at 9 AM. The address is: 1 Center Street (212-669-7925). Testifying is easy- just speak for three minutes or less about why you feel it is important to preserve DUMBO. Or, if you are shy, you can just sign in and submit a letter. Letters of support can also be mailed to the LPC.

    Landmarking DUMBO is the only way to preserve the unique place that it is. What do all of NYC's most desirable neighborhoods have in common? They are all historic districts.

    This is our only chance to make a difference, so please do your best to be there.
  • K
    IP - are you biting the hand that feeds you?

    just curious...who purchases your art? surely not fellow starving artists"
  • ?
    Can't argue with you, JVF, about the fact that there is very little affordable housing or studio space in New York for artists or just about anyone else. And rents have really skyrocketed in the last year or so -- many of our friends saw their rents jump as high as $1000.00 per month overnight.

    However, Walentas's plan for Dumbo made it very clear that it the neighborhood was never going to be an artists community long-term. He had time limits on his rentals and was upfront about the fact that this was non-negotiatible. In a lot of ways this was cynical as hell, but he was upfront about his plans. This is why I get upset when some people claim that the new condo owners have stolen the neighborhood away from them. Sounds like many took a devil's bargain a few years ago and are now acting as if they didn't know all the terms upfront.
  • It makes for a boring city.
  • CHUD
    "this is very bad for the city in the long run, even if you don’t care about the arts or respect artists."


    How so?
  • jvf
    As an artist who has never lived in Dumbo but has rented a small workspace there since '98, I can say that the speed with which Dumbo has gone from a neighborhood where ONLY artists would dare live (i'm not including vinegar hill, or farragut houses, just dumbo south of Gold st.) to an extension of Tribeca or BPC, is astonishing.

    Maybe this is the normal order of things...but remember, one of the things that makes NY what it is, and its real estate so valuable, is its primacy as a center for the arts. This is threatened these days, and anecdotally young artists/musicians etc. are avoiding NYC for other cities such as LA, Berlin, Chicago, Miami...this is very bad for the city in the long run, even if you don't care about the arts or respect artists.
  • ?
    "The possibility of a wonderful community destroyed, because folks are ashamed they couldn’t lead the lifestyle they thought their salaries should uphold."

    I don't know what exactly you mean by this because it was always clear that the Dumbo you are referring to was temporary. You write as if there was even the tiniest possibility that Walentas might have relented and kept Dumbo a below market rental paradise forever, as if there as anything even close to forever when it comes to cities. Who know what Dumbo will be like in 10, 20, or 50 years?

    The standards by which you view the neighborhood are clearly different than most. What you view as "Manhattanization" is actually pretty rudimentary improvement. Dumbo is changing from an industrial neighborhood and it's turning into a residential community. But I still have a pita factory and a diner booth manufacturer just down the street from me. It's an interesting mix and it's hardly Manhattan. If you've been living here as a single guy in a live/work space running "a saw/drill/drumset" then you probably don't need some of the services others of us are happy to see, but that doesn't mean there's anything extravagant about them. I think you're railing so hard against them because you're feeling threatened. That, or you're just an overgrown 25 year old who's pushing 40.
  • So sick of this
    IP- you are so ridiculously off that this probably doesn't even deserve a reply, but I am curious..... what exactly is "manhattanization"?
  • inflammatory poster
    Right, so you're all for the manhattanization of your hood, but don't want to live in manhattan. Ummm... ok.

    *sigh*
  • DumboDweller
    Gotta co-sign with Brooklyn Renaissance. I'm BK born and raised(East Flatbush representer in da house). I could live anywhere in NYC. I purposely wanted to live in MY home town, so choose the hottest 'hood in BK. Crazy loft spaces,great views,culture galore.
  • So sick of this
    Thank you, Thriving. I am yet another exception to what I am sure is the incorrect generalization about the new Dumbo residents. I fell in love with the area and moved to Brooklyn Heights about 5 years ago. I moved back to Manhattan for a few years following my divorce and was quite happy to move back to the area (now in Dumbo) with my now second husband last year. We could have afforded Manhattan, but I loved living in Brooklyn and convinced him this was the place to be! I'm glad I did, we love it here.

    IP- The reason we like the proximity to Manhattan is because we have a short, easy commute to work (as well as Manhattan nightlife, restaurants and friends) without having to actually LIVE in Manhattan. There is something about Brooklyn (particularly Dumbo)- we get urban living- the restaurants, the culture, the people etc- but it is also slightly quieter, less taxi and bus traffic, fewer tourists, et. It's also the kind of neighborhood where you become friendly with your neighbors, which is more than I can say for the many Manhattan neighborhoods I've lived in. There are many things to love about Dumbo and Brooklyn in addition to being cheaper than Manhattan, but getting more space for your money is definitely a plus. Nothing wrong with that.

    I chose Dumbo because I wanted to live in Dumbo, not because I couldn't afford some lifestyle I aspire to. My husband and I make plenty of money, but I choose to shop at Old Navy and he wears a $30 plastic timex watch. We are not all obsessed with living some "lifestyle". Your over-generalizations about all people who are not artists or make more money than you do are laughable and ridiculous. Me thinks you have been watching too much TV or perhaps have seen the move "Wall Street" a few too many times.

    What I want to know is- why haven't you moved already?????
  • vinegar Hill Res.
    What are you talking about saying that "we" have destroyed the neighborhood, "(a side effect of such seemingly innocent wishes of ‘basic amenities’)"???

    If anyone "destroyed" this neighborhood it was Walentas and a few other developers who managed to snare the few properties Walentas didn't own. The developers changed the neighborhood. But wasn't it Walentas who made Dumbo a haven for artists when he offered low rents in his buildings with a clear end date on the leases? You can blame the new people who have moved in, but it's a lame argument, by the time most of us arrived the place you describe had been gone for years.

    This is another half-baked argument: "so wait, it’s not that you couldn’t afford manhattan, it’s just you liked the proximity to manhattan, and the amount of space? That’s what I call ‘not being able to afford manhattan’." I don't want to live in Manhattan either, I did that for years and I never want to go back, but I'm happy to be a short walk or train ride away. Not wanting to live in Manhattan is one thing, going in for the day to work or hang out occasionally and not killing a couple hours with the commute is another.
  • inflammatory genitals
    i should be doing successful art instead of interacting with evil-doing bankers. i once drilled a drill. you [insert farm animal noise here] inferiors will never understand. i once invented art. non-artist people of earth not living in manhattan are not friends of me. i'm fedex when you're postal service. good looks to anthony, i didn't mean to turn you down, you can give me a reach around.
  • Too Bad for You
    Inflammatory: Just because your own narrow-minded snobbery is based on some deluded sense of authenticity doesn't make it respectable or even interesting. Please go right ahead and keep moving to whatever neighborhood won't challenge you with people who are different than you are or who might undermine your belief that you're the only one who knows what's "real."
  • inflammatory poster
    @K: would you mind if I ran a saw/drill/drumset upstairs from you?

    @Thriving: so wait, it's not that you couldn't afford manhattan, it's just you liked the proximity to manhattan, and the amount of space? That's what I call 'not being able to afford manhattan', because that other stuff... the physical beauty, the moderate sense of desolation and the post-industrial 'whatever', the vibe, is what you've destroyed (a side effect of such seemingly innocent wishes of 'basic amenities')
  • Brooklyn Renaissance
    this is coming from someone who grew up in brooklyn (circa kotch/dinkins years) - i recently bought in and moved to dumbo, and would not consider manhattan as a home regardless of home much money i could spend. i have no interest in living in manhattan, but i do have interest in proximity to work, nice views, and most importantly a great hq nabe which also happens to have proximity to multiple other excellent nabes (bk and manhattan). long live brooklyn, and long live manhattan - manhattan keep on makin it, brooklyn keep on takin it. it's friday everybody - make love not war.
  • Thriving
    For what it's worth, I'm another exception to the (probably mostly false) generalization that folks move to DUMBO because they can't afford Manhattan. I lived in Manhattan for years, the last year of which I fell in love with DUMBO - the edge, the physical beauty, the moderate sense of desolation and post-industrial whatever, the proximity to the LES and lower Manhattan, the size of the loft spaces, the vibe of the neighborhood and so on - and in February finally found a space here that suited, although it cost significantly more (to rent) than what we were already paying.

    I'm here because DUMBO is my favorite neighborhood in the city. I think lots of others feel similarly.
  • K
    Inflammatory - i respect you as an artist, but i'm wondering why you need a desolate space to "make art and music"?
    As a fellow artist, it seems to me that wherever these is an open canvas is a place to create; wall street, main street or otherwise.

    why can't we all just get along?
  • ?
    "Stop complaining about a lack of post office, etc, YOU moved to a neighborhood that didn’t have those things… other people were already there BECAUSE it didn’t have those things."

    A lot of us moved here despite the fact that there were no services and now we're simply happy to see them arriving. Clearly this arrival signals something else for you, and as another poster already mentioned, I don't blame you for feeling worried. However to write that the newbies here are striving for some sort of Manhattan ideal that we couldn't quite afford is just laughable. And the push from many of us for basic services to move in -- as opposed to a dozen more high-end clothing and designer gift boutiques -- is so this can be a REAL Brooklyn neighborhood with a hardware store, a pharmacy, a post office, locksmith, shoe repair... rather than a Walentas theme park where you can buy a $1500.00 dress but not soap.

    But I have to ask you, what did you think was going to happen when you moved here? How long did you think it was going to last? A neighborhood with beautiful buildings and waterfront access in walking distance of Manhattan? I can understand that it's upsetting to see things change and to feel that you may be displaced, but you're not living in reality if you thought that Dumbo was going to stay the way it was for even 15 years, let alone forever.

    Otherwise, the reason Dumbo gets called the most "Manhattan" of Brooklyn has more to do with it's proximity to Manhattan and the unusual fact that it's not a brownstone neighborhood than anything else. Real estate prices in Brooklyn Heights and prime Park Slope are just as high as ours.
  • inflammatory poster, from the
    ? - No, I won't be here... And I won't be unhappy about it either... just like it doesn't bother me that I don't live in the East Village or Williamsburg now. I'd rather not live amongst a bunch of also-ran squares.

    The question is whether you will REALLY want to be there. Would you like to live in Times Square today?

    The purpose is to get you to see what you're enabling.
  • Ken22
    "Best Manhattanized Brooklyn Neighborhood" is clearly a euphemism for "Best Brooklyn Neighborhood". I think that's the point they're trying to make, and I wholeheartedly agree.
  • ?
    Dear Inflammatory Poster,

    I'll be here in 10 years time, the question is where will you be? If you are truly one of the "old timers" with a below market lease I don't think you'll be here indefinitely. Your landlord or the developer who owns your building will likely cash out at some point. It will be sad when that happens, it will definitely change the character of the neighborhood, but it seems inevitable.

    Check back in with us in 10 years, we'll be here, where will you be? Perhaps the moon? I hear it's very quiet and there are no yuppie post offices or pharmacies around to make you feel like you live in Manhattan.
  • Tim
    Some of the posters here have clearly gone to great lengths to avoid having a post office in their neighborhood. Presumably they also go to great lengths to avoid showering, and to eat in places like Pedros. I really can't see why any sane person would want to follow either course of action.
  • inflammatory poster, not looki
    why should we applaud neighborhood elevation, when our definitions of elevation are so different?

    For me, this neighborhood has been on the decline... away from a place that's a haven to make music/art in. Why should I applaud this? Because there's 'convenience' now?

    My inflammatory posts not due to me being a luddite, or wanting the neighborhood to stall. It's that the threat of displacement is real, is that the lack of ability to make art here is very real... and consisently when this point is brought up the response is 'get a real job'....

    And the folks saying such things? Well, they didn't move to dumbo to be left alone (away from people who will complain about noise, etc), they moved to dumbo to have a lifestyle they couldn't afford.

    Thus, I argue, it's the squares in dumbo that should get a real job... one that will afford them the lifestyle they wish to have. Stop complaining about a lack of post office, etc, YOU moved to a neighborhood that didn't have those things... other people were already there BECAUSE it didn't have those things.

    This article just proves it. Congratulations! You are the most Manhattan neighborhood in Brooklyn! The ultimate 'also ran'. You have succeeded in coming in second. You are a cheap imitation. A failure.
  • bumbo
    Anthony...haven't I seen you walking the streets of Dumbo wearing a helmet and a drool cup? And Inflamed Pustule, I'm rich, and I live here shame free, and now I'd like you to tea bag me. I'll pay you whatever Starbucks pays you.
  • inflammatory poster
    thanks for the support, you can suck me off later on.
  • you are obviously correct: but at the same time I believe that there is nothing wrong with it.
    DUMBO stays in Brooklyn )like Greenwich stays in Manhattan) and Bensonhurst stays in Brooklyn like Washington Heights stays in Manhattan and so on.

    Now, if DUMBO was East New York then East New York was DUMBO

    eheh


    that's the reality (of things)

    and we (all of us) should applaud to the attempt to elevate a neighborhood lifestyle in any form.

    is the term "manhattanized" correct? Yes it is. Will they stay in DUMBO no matter what and for the long run? No, I don't think so. It's just "temporary". That's the real problem as I see it.

    but again you are indeed correct.
  • inflammatory poster, not a tro
    Why not ask what's the best Brooklyn neighborhood in Brooklyn?

    Maybe because the (new) community of DUMBO isn't really interested in Brooklyn?

    Most would have moved to Manhattan if they could've afforded it. The possibility of a wonderful community destroyed, because folks are ashamed they couldn't lead the lifestyle they thought their salaries should uphold.
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