Dumbo NYC

Is this Walentas setting this up?

Why is this scheduled for 5pm? Most people have jobs and can't get there that early. Seems like an easy way to avoid a big turnout voicing complaints. Or was this the most convenient time from Cracky and Smokey to show up and make their case for why they should be allowed to harass people passing by in front of P&P.

I agree. 5 PM is really inconvenient for many Dumbo residents. I am going to try my best to be there.

I think the panhandlers should be dragged out by their feet by the police and dumped off in another neighborhood. I am so annoyed with that woman who stands next to the guy on the wheelchair. Everyday I hear, "Hey god bless you, gimmee your change."

Give me a break and get the hell out of our hood.

I agree. The prospect of my child getting stabbed with a syringe by one of these reprobates is too much to bear. Our lease is coming up and I am seriously thinking of leaving Dumbo to go to a less threatening neighborhood.

Eh, don't bother...you won't find a better hood than DUMBO and the wealthy folk with influence will bitch enough to get the problem solved fairly soon I predict.

Dawg, what do you mean by "you won't find a better hood than Dumbo"? having wealthy people bitching and complaining in the neighborhood doesn't solve problems. people have to take action to improve their neighborhood.

Mmmmm....nope. It will be the owners of million dollar plus properties raising hell that will finally make the local police precinct take action. Wait and see.

And what I mean by "you won't find a better hood than DUMBO" means exactly that. Where's the confusion? Proximity to everything, views, events, character, not ghetto, need I go on?

I really have to wonder if most of these comments are part of a bigger joke or hoax.
I have lived here approx. 3 years and the neighborhood that is described by the people above...I don't see it. And I am not looking to pick on people here but...
Yes, I see people asking for money. And, yes, I have been asked for money or a smoke. And I know of three muggings over the years.
But I have never witnessed any of the scenes written here prior.
Since this thread started I have been paying more attention to the corners and spots complained of, and besides the typical spare-change request made to me, which is made to me citywide in every neighborhood. The neighborhood I live in is a different reality then the one described in this site.

But, that being said, people should attend the BID event if only to make for better communication with your neighbors, and its always good to be involved in community issues. Good will come out of it. (hopefully)

I have been witness to verbal abuse by panhandlers and I have personally been spit at by one. I think Dumbo for the most part is a safe neighborhood (and a great neighborhood!), but I don't think we should sit back and let people be verbally abused simply for walking down the street. And I am certainly not taking any chances. One day the drug addicts who constantly hang out across the street from my home might get desperate for the money and decide to hurt someone for it. Drug addicts are unpredictable that way. I'd rather get rid of them now before something really bad does happen.

Dumbo has a nice police presence much of the time, but I rarely see the police actually doing anything other than chatting up the panhandlers. That's been my experience.

Come one people! The Farragut Houses have been here since the 1950s. Did you not notice these sprawling projects at your million dollar doorsteps? This hood is not Park Av! and never will be.

I think the police are aware of the GIANT projects on our northern frontier. Maybe we should put up a fence, like the one suggested for the for Mexico.

Its important to note this is a tiny hood in BROOKLYN and although the few of you that spent (or borrowed) a million to live here the peeps in park slope wield much more power in this borough

We are not stupid, we all knew the Farragut Houses were there. Does that mean we can't take action to make our 'hood as safe as possible? What is wrong with that? No one is suggesting we put up a fence (well, except for you).

Not sure why it is important to note that Park Slopers "wield more power"???

Does anyone that attended last night have any notes that they would mind sharing? Would so appreciate as I couldn't get there given 5 pm time.

It is great that people want to take action to make this a safe neighborhood. Being verbally abused or spat on, rocks being thrown; these are all unacceptable, and none of us should have to live in a community where this becomes anywhere close to the norm.

On the other hand, children getting stabbed with syringes??

Making these kinds leaps of logic is just not credible.

We got trouble. We got trouble, Right here in River City!

So what happened at the meeting?

Not much, to be honest. Regarding the panhandling situation.....In a nutshell, the cops say they are on our side and want to get rid of the panhandlers as much as we do, but they say they can't do anything about it legally. My question was why are the cops so darn friendly with them, then? Doesn't exactly discourage them.

Bottom line is we need to report any incidents right away- if they get aggressive or spit on you etc, etc, call 311 or 911 and file a complaint!

They did have some helpful tips on how to stay safe- mostly common sense though.

There are also community meetings that the 84th precinct commanding officer attends that residents should attend to voice their concerns. Can't remember when they said the meetings are and I don't have my notes with me.

This is my favorite line in the thread ... "The prospect of my child getting stabbed with a syringe by one of these reprobates is too much to bear."

Stop whining and move back to Tribeca.

You can't have it both ways. The bums can't be "so desperate that they might stab my foetus with a syringe" and also be here only because everyone encourages them by giving them money. Of course this doesn't account for the crazy dude in the wheelchair but how hard is it stay clear of a guy with no legs?

Its not so much the bums' desperation that I worry about, its more their innate criminality. There's no way to legislate for that. They scare me whether they are desperate or not.

Innate criminality?? Its people like you who are destroying our neighborhood. Ann - go away

I still don't understand what is so wrong about not liking the fact that drug addicts hang out on your street corner every day. In what world should we encourage that? I don't get it.

Personally, I feel that if you are not interested or concerned about safety in Dumbo than just don't read or post on this thread. There are people here who are simply interested in making the neighborhood they call home as safe and pleasant to live in as possible. And there is nothing wrong with that. They certainly shouldn't be subject to snarky comments about their concerns.

I'm interested in safety, but I'm also interested in social justice. And it seems legally and morally suspect to criminalize people for embodying a condition (like being a drug addict or being poor and black) rather than committing an illegal action.

If people on the street commit violent crimes, then by all means throw the book at them. But "innate criminality" is not sufficient grounds for legal action. And "innate criminality" has been used far too many times to justify social repression throughout US history.

Thank you, Hideyoshi, for providing a forum for the free [and civil!] exchange of ideas.

T-bone,

Concerns about safety and keeping the neighborhood safe and pleasant is cool.

It not snarky, however, to point out that some of the concerns are just not legitimate because they are on the outer edges of what could happen...eg my child is going to be stabbed with a syringe.

Possibility of being mugged or held up for some cash and a cell phone? Yes. Addicts targeting children to stab with syringes? No

On the point of innate criminality, if you take a step back and think what that suggests, you may not see that as snarky after all. Too give Ann the benefit of the doubt, maybe it was a poor choice of words to say innate

TW,

Glad to see your post!

I haven't gone to Peas and Pickles in over a month. There are many options for dried goods and misc stuff, I've found Jimi's and Bridge 'Not-so' Fresh to have what I would have previously gone to P&Ps for, and they are a bit nicer. Just stop shopping P&Ps...it'll hit them eventually.

Innate: adj. Possessed at birth; inborn.
Possessed as an essential characteristic; inherent.

In Nature vs Nurture, Nature always wins..

I take back the benefit of the doubt. You need help if you believe criminality is an inherent trait. We will also know who is not wearing a costume tonight when they parade around in a white sheet.

It has been great to see the many posts on this and other threads. This thread has exposed what a hassle, threat and eye sore the panhadlers have become. Often there has been constructive commentary.

However, some posts have also highlighted the fact that there are other dangers in this community; elitists, artists that hate basic services, racists, and otherwise idiotic/ignorant people.

Thank you Ann for showing us that you should be included in the club called(nicely) the crap stains on the panties of life in Dumbo!

What I mean about snarky comments- it is one thing to point out that something is unlikely and perhaps farfetched (Although I happen to agree, I would never belittle a mother's concerns), it is another thing entirely to post comments like "go away" and "Stop whining and move back to Tribeca." I personally don't think that kind of thing is necessary.

I can't speak for others, but personally, I am definitely not trying to criminalize anyone for a condition that has nothing to do with crime. I can not believe someone would put the "conditions" of being "poor and black" in the same category as "drug addict". In my mind they are two entirely different matters. I have a problem with drug addicts hanging out on my street. And as far as being criminals- they buy and possess illegal drugs, so yes, they are criminals. They also verbally harass and threaten people, in addition to panhandling outside of an ATM location (this is an issue that was brought up at the meeting and there is some disagreement as to whether it covers P&P or not- hope that can be clarified soon).

Thank you all for your sarcastic comments. Is there really anything wrong with worrying about the safety of one's child?

New residents like me have brought money, amenities, cleaner streets and a higher quality of life to Dumbo. Older residents and 'artists' need to realise how grateful they should be.

TBone,

I always appreciate your posts, even the ones I may diagree with. You state your concerns well, and seem to seek some sort of balance. I also totally understand a mothers concern; my own mother is rather over protective (a recent head cold experience) of me and I am in my 40s:)

I see that you not where Ann is on what is "innate". While you may not categorize or generalize, others do. That is why she generated a what you called a snarky comment.

I think it interesting when given an out to simply state that hardcore drug abusers are more likely to commit a crime, she chose instead to become Darwinian. Given that, the move to out comment may not be snarky at all.

The sum of many comments over the last month, is that there are more than few people here that have a warped social views. Ann's post is included.

Some of the people on this blog are way to liberal.

Why are these people (limpy, wheely. cracky etc) always hanging out in the same spot? They come because this is a wealthy neighborhood and beg the residents for their change.

If their presence was a bit more sporadic, it probably wouldn't be a big deal. However, since they make a daily habit of setting up shop on the corners of Peas and Pickles, they must be removed, with force if possible.

I have seen Smokey getting off the F train on my way into work in the morning, which leads to the assumption that he is commuting to "work" each day. So he is obviously not selecting his target area at random.

This neighborhood is too small to deal with this issue and it must be resolved.

http://abc.net.au/news/scitech/2002/08/item2002...

"British scientists discover 'criminal' gene"

Sorry to get all Darwinian again, but you can't argue with science...

I was at the Landmarking meeting yesterday and heard from a lot of people who are taking the time and action to protect a neighborhood they love. Its not wrong to expect that things should be relatively safe in dumbo for newer residents, but don't assume that just because you spent a lot of money on your condo that you are the one who got the trees planted, stores and banks opened, belgian block streets protected (which they actually aren't quite yet). I hear a lot of entitlement from people on this board who recently moved to dumbo -- this "I paid a lot of money for my place so blah blah blah." I think this is the attitude that rubs a lof of people the wrong way (see dog run threads, post office threads etc). The older residents, business owners, architecture and history enthusiasts and artists who I heard speak yesterday (there were few "newer" residents from what i could tell -- at least none testified), have a reasonable and educated understanding about gentrification and development. Sure, some are a bit bitter and unhappy about the way things have turned out, but mainly, they are accepting this neighborhood of course must change while somehow trying to keep things from getting ridiculous and irresponsible down here -- and based on some of the things people write here with anonymity on their side, I can hardly blame them. Perhaps, angry mom, there should be a bit more gratefulness on both ends.

Angry mom,

My comments are not meant to be sarcastic, and of course you have every right to be concern about your child.

But put the concern in perspective. If you are contemplating moving out the community because you fear for your child "being stabbed", then you are leaving a good community for the wrong reasons. A child being stabbed with a syringe by a panhandler is unlikely to happen.

Of course I do not have the statistics sitting next to my computer, but I would wager that your child is statistically more likey to suffer some sort of harm somewhere else and by someone else. Be it a perverted uncle, some pedophile teacher at school, another trusted family friend, or from being harmed in a car accident from a drunk driver.

I too am a new resident, non-artist, that has brought money to this neighborhood, so this is not some go home yuppie jab at you.

Is that true about the criminal gene? i had no idea.. explains a lot

Janie,

Ann is an expert in using google, and only looking to the second listing in the results. I am sure she did not write a thesis at Harvard on genetics. She was also selcetive in not posting other listings that debunked the whole theory.

She is right in one respect, you can't argure with science, especially when it is arguing with itself on the subject!

I am no expert, but quickly found from Ann's post that even if you believe there is a this more "agressive" gene you also need some some of nurturing problem for it to manifest! So there is a role for nurturing, even under Ann's second rate science.

Can we screen the bums for this 'criminal gene' please? We ought to know which of them represents a danger to our children. Will the city be able to help?

Thanks, Too Much Hype! Right back atcha.I was definitely defending "Angry Mom" from the snarky/sarcastic comments more than anything. Poor woman is just worried about her small child! (by the way, nothing you said was particularly snarky, imho.)

Some people take things way too far and I hate to see it on all sides (both regarding the panhandling/safety discussion and the whole hippies vs yuppies thing- why do we have to categorize and generalize?). I love living in this neighborhood and do want to keep a balance, while helping to make it a safe and pleasant place to live. And while I may spend time complaining on this blog, I am also committed to being involved in the community and was one of the few who left work early to attend the safety seminar. I encourage everyone who cares about this neighborhood (like I do) to get involved and to continue to have a civil discussion on this blog (and elsewhere) without resorting to the use of personal insults, stereotypes, generalizations, etc, etc. I know that is probably unlikely, but what can I say- I am an idealist.

There is a whole lot of entitlement going on around here- the old timers feeling entitled to their neighborhood being kept from inevitable change because they were here first and the newcomers feeling entitled to whatever they want simply because they have some money. It's all just very silly!

Ann C, apparently you haven't seen (or dismiss as bollocks) the film Trading Places. If not, please see it and post again with your thoughts about "innate criminality".

So-called "science" can (and has!) been used to justify pretty much anything - from Hitler's ethnic cleansing (demonstrable Aryan genetic superiority) to the inaccuracy of current global warming claims. Scientific method does work, but so often what passes for science is so lacking in rigor it is nothing more than repackaged prejudice. I'd be surprised if this study mentioned in your ABC News link is anything more than the latter.

Moreover, I have no doubt that you - and me and everyone reading this - have broken a variety of laws at various points in life (speed limits, pot smoking, using pharmaceuticals without a prescription, etc). Are we all criminals? Yes. Is all crime morally wrong? I don't think so - especially crime that harms only the one committing it (e.g. private consumption of soft drugs).

The category "criminal" is nearly meaningless in a society such as ours, in which practically everyone has broken a bunch of laws.

In any case, if the goal is to boast about one's own righteousness (and others' lack thereof) there are plenty of ways/forums to do so - clearly including this blog. If the goal is to find the best balance between personal/community safety and personal freedom (for *all* persons in the community) - and I hope this is our primary goal - then let's quit spewing hateful rhetoric and resume our constructive conversation about how to starve the undesirable behavior.

Personally, I think the best we can do in this situation - without compromising our commitment to constitutional freedoms for all - is to refuse to reward panhandlers with money and positive attention for their panhandling, and to continue the conversation with law enforcement/businesses/the community about those panhandlers that are particularly problematic so that we achieve enough of a boycott of the behavior that they leave for greener pastures.

Of course, as others have said, any aggressive or violent behavior should be immediately reported.

Has anything more happened with this issue, which shows no signs of improving?