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	<title>Comments on: Joint Statement by BHA, DNA, FFL, on Dock St Dumbo Building</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/</link>
	<description>Notes from the DUMBO, Brooklyn NY neighborhood</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 20:46:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Dumbo NYC, Brooklyn &#187; Archive &#187; NYC Dept of Education Includes Dock Street in Capital Plan (DumboNYC.com)</title>
		<link>http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-40674</link>
		<dc:creator>Dumbo NYC, Brooklyn &#187; Archive &#187; NYC Dept of Education Includes Dock Street in Capital Plan (DumboNYC.com)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 19:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/#comment-40674</guid>
		<description>[...] or how the school will be built, but Two Trees hopes to be part of the plan, which also includes a controversial residential building above the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] or how the school will be built, but Two Trees hopes to be part of the plan, which also includes a controversial residential building above the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rumor?</title>
		<link>http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-36533</link>
		<dc:creator>Rumor?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 21:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/#comment-36533</guid>
		<description>Well, that&#039;s good to hear...although, then I&#039;m even more curious as to why leases in 45 Main aren&#039;t being written beyond 2014?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, that&#8217;s good to hear&#8230;although, then I&#8217;m even more curious as to why leases in 45 Main aren&#8217;t being written beyond 2014?</p>
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		<title>By: ancient</title>
		<link>http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-36526</link>
		<dc:creator>ancient</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/#comment-36526</guid>
		<description>With regard to Two Trees converting 45 Main into residential--

 The only reason it has not happened already is that it is not, nor will it ever be, legally possible. The floor plates are too large for residential conversion. So, put that worry to rest. By the way, 20 Jay Street can never be converted either for the same reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With regard to Two Trees converting 45 Main into residential&#8211;</p>
<p> The only reason it has not happened already is that it is not, nor will it ever be, legally possible. The floor plates are too large for residential conversion. So, put that worry to rest. By the way, 20 Jay Street can never be converted either for the same reason.</p>
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		<title>By: Just Curious...</title>
		<link>http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-36522</link>
		<dc:creator>Just Curious...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 02:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/#comment-36522</guid>
		<description>FROM the LPC website

What is a landmark?
A landmark is a building, property, or object that has been designated by the Landmarks Preservation Commission because it has a special character or special historical or aesthetic interest or value as part of the development, heritage, or cultural characteristics of the city, state, or nation.
Landmarks are not always buildings. A landmark may be a bridge, a park, a water tower, a pier, a cemetery, a building lobby, a sidewalk clock, a fence, or even a tree. A property or object is eligible for landmark status when at least part of it is thirty years old or older.

Why is it important to designate and protect landmarks and historic districts?
As the Landmarks Law states, protection of these resources serves the following purposes:
1. Safeguarding the city&#039;s historic, aesthetic, and cultural heritage;
2. Helping to stabilize and improve property values in historic districts;
3. Encouraging civic pride in the beauty and accomplishments of the past;
4. Protecting and enhancing the city&#039;s attractions for tourists, thereby benefitting business and industry;
5. Strengthening the city&#039;s economy; and
6. Promoting the use of landmarks for the education, pleasure, and welfare of the people of the city.

What types of designations can the Commission make?
There are three types of landmarks: individual (exterior) landmarks, interior landmarks, and scenic landmarks. The Landmarks Preservation Commission may also designate areas of the city as historic districts.

4. An historic district is an area of the city designated by the Landmarks Commission that represents at least one period or style of architecture typical of one or more areas in the city&#039;s history; as a result, the district has a distinct &quot;sense of place.&quot; Fort Greene, Greenwich Village, Mott Haven, and SoHo are examples of sections of the city that contain historic districts.
___________________________________________
The LPC does not designate empty lots - they are A)not over 30 years old &amp; B) have nothing worthy of preserving. 

You say you own a condo - is it in 70 Washington? So your view of the Brooklyn Bridge is over the empty lot at Front &amp; York and over the former Nova Clutch site? So would you support landmarking if it ensured your personal view would be protected?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FROM the LPC website</p>
<p>What is a landmark?<br />
A landmark is a building, property, or object that has been designated by the Landmarks Preservation Commission because it has a special character or special historical or aesthetic interest or value as part of the development, heritage, or cultural characteristics of the city, state, or nation.<br />
Landmarks are not always buildings. A landmark may be a bridge, a park, a water tower, a pier, a cemetery, a building lobby, a sidewalk clock, a fence, or even a tree. A property or object is eligible for landmark status when at least part of it is thirty years old or older.</p>
<p>Why is it important to designate and protect landmarks and historic districts?<br />
As the Landmarks Law states, protection of these resources serves the following purposes:<br />
1. Safeguarding the city&#8217;s historic, aesthetic, and cultural heritage;<br />
2. Helping to stabilize and improve property values in historic districts;<br />
3. Encouraging civic pride in the beauty and accomplishments of the past;<br />
4. Protecting and enhancing the city&#8217;s attractions for tourists, thereby benefitting business and industry;<br />
5. Strengthening the city&#8217;s economy; and<br />
6. Promoting the use of landmarks for the education, pleasure, and welfare of the people of the city.</p>
<p>What types of designations can the Commission make?<br />
There are three types of landmarks: individual (exterior) landmarks, interior landmarks, and scenic landmarks. The Landmarks Preservation Commission may also designate areas of the city as historic districts.</p>
<p>4. An historic district is an area of the city designated by the Landmarks Commission that represents at least one period or style of architecture typical of one or more areas in the city&#8217;s history; as a result, the district has a distinct &#8220;sense of place.&#8221; Fort Greene, Greenwich Village, Mott Haven, and SoHo are examples of sections of the city that contain historic districts.<br />
___________________________________________<br />
The LPC does not designate empty lots &#8211; they are A)not over 30 years old &amp; B) have nothing worthy of preserving. </p>
<p>You say you own a condo &#8211; is it in 70 Washington? So your view of the Brooklyn Bridge is over the empty lot at Front &amp; York and over the former Nova Clutch site? So would you support landmarking if it ensured your personal view would be protected?</p>
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		<title>By: epc</title>
		<link>http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-36521</link>
		<dc:creator>epc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 23:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/#comment-36521</guid>
		<description>The two Watchtower properties I&#039;m referring to are the empty lots at York &amp; Front and the block-long empty lot between Jay and Bridge on Front.  It may seem futile to include these in a landmark district but by doing so the LPC could control any future uses of the lots if/when Watchtower sold them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The two Watchtower properties I&#8217;m referring to are the empty lots at York &amp; Front and the block-long empty lot between Jay and Bridge on Front.  It may seem futile to include these in a landmark district but by doing so the LPC could control any future uses of the lots if/when Watchtower sold them.</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-36520</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/#comment-36520</guid>
		<description>My understanding is that the district does not encompass the Dock St. development site because this was formerly a low garage and the Nova Clutch Building - neither of which were viewed to be significant enough to preserve by the LPC. Additionally, the Watchtower buildings have had many changes to them already , so perhaps they were not included for the same reason - or maybe it is because they lie on the other side of the BQE and seemed too removed from the proposed area. There is a building on Bridge Street, #53, that was to be included in the designated area, but then the developer (Josh Guttman) made so many changes to the exterior, including the addition of several stories on the top, that it was removed from the propose district by LPC. 
I agree with you about the changes you would impose, given your druthers. However, I do not agree with you that landmarking would be as restrictive and limiting as you envision. I cannot explain why the Northern Heights commercial spaces seemed to wither - perhaps this would have happened anyway given its proximity to the BQE and Brooklyn Bridge Ramps whether the area was landmarked in the 1960s or not. I, for one, am grateful it was landmarked as it is so beautiful and such a treasure - we are so lucky this lovely area was not converted into something awful - like say, Chambers Street in Manhattan, or the Fulton Mall area in downown Brooklyn. 

Lets look at another area - SoHo. Robert Moses wanted to plow over this horrible, run down industrial area that was rampant with crime and  derelict, dangerous buildings. But grass roots community groups objected. It languished through much of the Eighties, many buildings were in disrepair - one might have argued that preservation ( it was landmarked in 1973) wasn&#039;t working - but Holy Cow, look at it now!

I think landmarking has only one drawback - that you sometimes have to spend more money to repair the exterior of the building. But in my mind, that cost  is well justified in exchange for the aesthetic beauty we can all enjoy and which remains for future generations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My understanding is that the district does not encompass the Dock St. development site because this was formerly a low garage and the Nova Clutch Building &#8211; neither of which were viewed to be significant enough to preserve by the LPC. Additionally, the Watchtower buildings have had many changes to them already , so perhaps they were not included for the same reason &#8211; or maybe it is because they lie on the other side of the BQE and seemed too removed from the proposed area. There is a building on Bridge Street, #53, that was to be included in the designated area, but then the developer (Josh Guttman) made so many changes to the exterior, including the addition of several stories on the top, that it was removed from the propose district by LPC.<br />
I agree with you about the changes you would impose, given your druthers. However, I do not agree with you that landmarking would be as restrictive and limiting as you envision. I cannot explain why the Northern Heights commercial spaces seemed to wither &#8211; perhaps this would have happened anyway given its proximity to the BQE and Brooklyn Bridge Ramps whether the area was landmarked in the 1960s or not. I, for one, am grateful it was landmarked as it is so beautiful and such a treasure &#8211; we are so lucky this lovely area was not converted into something awful &#8211; like say, Chambers Street in Manhattan, or the Fulton Mall area in downown Brooklyn. </p>
<p>Lets look at another area &#8211; SoHo. Robert Moses wanted to plow over this horrible, run down industrial area that was rampant with crime and  derelict, dangerous buildings. But grass roots community groups objected. It languished through much of the Eighties, many buildings were in disrepair &#8211; one might have argued that preservation ( it was landmarked in 1973) wasn&#8217;t working &#8211; but Holy Cow, look at it now!</p>
<p>I think landmarking has only one drawback &#8211; that you sometimes have to spend more money to repair the exterior of the building. But in my mind, that cost  is well justified in exchange for the aesthetic beauty we can all enjoy and which remains for future generations.</p>
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		<title>By: epc</title>
		<link>http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-36517</link>
		<dc:creator>epc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:08:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/#comment-36517</guid>
		<description>Ooh, snap.  Any joker with a web browser can find out my identity, it isn&#039;t hard (I&#039;ve been signing comments here, brownstoner, and at BrooklynHeights blog with my initials, and have been signing posts to Usenet and the web with them for decades).  I have nothing to do with New York real estate.  I own a condo in DUMBO and previously owned in Brooklyn Heights.  I&#039;ve lived in Brooklyn for seven years, and NYC for ten.  So, who are you?

I don&#039;t know where I stand on landmarking.  I&#039;m concerned that landmarking has become more about blocking development, instead of historic preservation.  Until the recent real estate boom, there were maybe a dozen homes in North Brooklyn Heights which had had no maintenance for years and were left in disrepair.  There&#039;s no requirement to preserve or maintain anything in an landmark district, only the ability to block changes.

I&#039;m concerned that landmark districts tend to push out commerical business by increasing costs.  Again, in the North Heights recently we had a long time children&#039;s clothing shop forced to close so that the owner could convert the storefront to an apartment.  The landmark premium is so enticing that owners of commercial space would rather sit on it empty for years holding out for that whale of a tenant who&#039;d pay Manhattan style rents, than cut the rent (look at the number of vacant spaces on Henry Street between Clark and Cranberry).

Landmarking pushes out lower income tenants, either through increasing rents, or through rental-to-condo conversions.

Aside from being snarky, I&#039;ve reviewed my comments (btw, that must have taken some effort DDF) and don&#039;t see where I was misleading.

Landmarking preserves the architecture of a designated area by integrating the LPC into the DOB permitting process.  It does not aim to preserve the specific cultural makeup of an area.  It does not protect tenants (commercial or residential) from evictions for the process of conversions.  It doesn&#039;t even necessarily prevent development, it just requires LPC approval.  The LPC&#039;s sense of what&#039;s historically relevant can be seen by walking around Brooklyn Heights and seeing the &quot;new&quot; (since the 60s) developments.  The train comment may have been snarky, but what does it mean to &quot;preserve&quot; the look of the 1900s building fronts when they&#039;ve all been converted from their industrial uses to more resident and staff friendly appearances.  I&#039;ve looked, I&#039;ve asked, and no one seems to be able to define the quintessential DUMBO façade to be preserved. 

I took another look at the proposed district map.  Again, it does not encompass the Dock street development space, it does not enclose either of the two large open Watchtower properties, nor any of the smaller Watchtower properties.  Please show me how landmarking will prevent or restrict development on these properties and I&#039;ll withdraw that statement.

Landmarking isn&#039;t a panacaea.  As the district is currently proposed, it&#039;s a massive gift to the largest property owners in DUMBO in the form of immediate increased property values.

If it were up to me, I&#039;d restrict development from Dock St. to the Navy Yard, put in height restrictions so that no new development (including &quot;cabanas&quot;) can exceed the height of the bridge deck, and require a set aside of any residential space for affordable housing.  And I&#039;d freeze zoning where it is today, no conversions from commercial to residential.

But that&#039;s just me.

But you&#039;ve given me an idea.  Other than comments here or posts on my blog, I hadn&#039;t thought of taking an actual, meaningful public position against the landmark district, perhaps I should.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooh, snap.  Any joker with a web browser can find out my identity, it isn&#8217;t hard (I&#8217;ve been signing comments here, brownstoner, and at BrooklynHeights blog with my initials, and have been signing posts to Usenet and the web with them for decades).  I have nothing to do with New York real estate.  I own a condo in DUMBO and previously owned in Brooklyn Heights.  I&#8217;ve lived in Brooklyn for seven years, and NYC for ten.  So, who are you?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know where I stand on landmarking.  I&#8217;m concerned that landmarking has become more about blocking development, instead of historic preservation.  Until the recent real estate boom, there were maybe a dozen homes in North Brooklyn Heights which had had no maintenance for years and were left in disrepair.  There&#8217;s no requirement to preserve or maintain anything in an landmark district, only the ability to block changes.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m concerned that landmark districts tend to push out commerical business by increasing costs.  Again, in the North Heights recently we had a long time children&#8217;s clothing shop forced to close so that the owner could convert the storefront to an apartment.  The landmark premium is so enticing that owners of commercial space would rather sit on it empty for years holding out for that whale of a tenant who&#8217;d pay Manhattan style rents, than cut the rent (look at the number of vacant spaces on Henry Street between Clark and Cranberry).</p>
<p>Landmarking pushes out lower income tenants, either through increasing rents, or through rental-to-condo conversions.</p>
<p>Aside from being snarky, I&#8217;ve reviewed my comments (btw, that must have taken some effort DDF) and don&#8217;t see where I was misleading.</p>
<p>Landmarking preserves the architecture of a designated area by integrating the LPC into the DOB permitting process.  It does not aim to preserve the specific cultural makeup of an area.  It does not protect tenants (commercial or residential) from evictions for the process of conversions.  It doesn&#8217;t even necessarily prevent development, it just requires LPC approval.  The LPC&#8217;s sense of what&#8217;s historically relevant can be seen by walking around Brooklyn Heights and seeing the &#8220;new&#8221; (since the 60s) developments.  The train comment may have been snarky, but what does it mean to &#8220;preserve&#8221; the look of the 1900s building fronts when they&#8217;ve all been converted from their industrial uses to more resident and staff friendly appearances.  I&#8217;ve looked, I&#8217;ve asked, and no one seems to be able to define the quintessential DUMBO façade to be preserved. </p>
<p>I took another look at the proposed district map.  Again, it does not encompass the Dock street development space, it does not enclose either of the two large open Watchtower properties, nor any of the smaller Watchtower properties.  Please show me how landmarking will prevent or restrict development on these properties and I&#8217;ll withdraw that statement.</p>
<p>Landmarking isn&#8217;t a panacaea.  As the district is currently proposed, it&#8217;s a massive gift to the largest property owners in DUMBO in the form of immediate increased property values.</p>
<p>If it were up to me, I&#8217;d restrict development from Dock St. to the Navy Yard, put in height restrictions so that no new development (including &#8220;cabanas&#8221;) can exceed the height of the bridge deck, and require a set aside of any residential space for affordable housing.  And I&#8217;d freeze zoning where it is today, no conversions from commercial to residential.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s just me.</p>
<p>But you&#8217;ve given me an idea.  Other than comments here or posts on my blog, I hadn&#8217;t thought of taking an actual, meaningful public position against the landmark district, perhaps I should.</p>
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		<title>By: Chow</title>
		<link>http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-36516</link>
		<dc:creator>Chow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 11:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/#comment-36516</guid>
		<description>Oh BURN on epc....kick his ass DDF!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh BURN on epc&#8230;.kick his ass DDF!</p>
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		<title>By: DDF</title>
		<link>http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-36515</link>
		<dc:creator>DDF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 03:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/#comment-36515</guid>
		<description>I have been reading your comments, epc, on this thread and a couple of others on this site.
You claim to be neutral, you claim some naive ignorance about historic designation, yet your comments are insidiously negative against landmarking? So what&#039;s your real agenda? Why all the rah rah for &quot;zoning&quot; changes instead of historic preservation? Do you work for Tom Montval Cohen, one neighborhood developer who is a big advocate of block by block re-zoning? That is the only way he got his monstrosity, The J Condo approved - or, one might say , to borrow your words, &quot;The benefits of re-zoning&quot;. Or are you Peter Foreman - a landlord who owns two buildings on jay Street who can&#039;t stop talking about how zoning changes would be preferable to landmarking - yeah, preferable for HIM. Or do you work for our old friends, Two Trees? Wallentas &amp; Son also employ the BID, or the more benign sounding &quot;dumbo improvement district&quot; ( aka BID) -  if so you, epc, would be in the good company of wolves in sheep&#039;s clothing. 
Stop putting fear and doubt into residents&#039; minds. landmarking was started to stop thoughtless demolition of special buildings and neighborhoods in order to preserve their unique sense of place - which dumbo still has, even if trains no longer run into the lobby of 55 Washington (another one of your hair brained examples) Landmarking is about adaptive RE-use, not trying to stop time. And all the nonsense you spout about not doing anything to preserve open space, not limiting development, not protecting commercial space and lofts is all total BULLS***. Who the hell is paying you?
People, go straight to the LPC website to get the real deal. Or check out  The Historic Districts Council website. Or ask in the Brooklyn Historical Society. Or check out the info on the DNA website. Or look up more information on the Municiple Arts Society website.
This epc joker is a fraud. Don&#039;t believe someone who is so clearly driven by a personal agenda. And that agenda, I guess, is greed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been reading your comments, epc, on this thread and a couple of others on this site.<br />
You claim to be neutral, you claim some naive ignorance about historic designation, yet your comments are insidiously negative against landmarking? So what&#8217;s your real agenda? Why all the rah rah for &#8220;zoning&#8221; changes instead of historic preservation? Do you work for Tom Montval Cohen, one neighborhood developer who is a big advocate of block by block re-zoning? That is the only way he got his monstrosity, The J Condo approved &#8211; or, one might say , to borrow your words, &#8220;The benefits of re-zoning&#8221;. Or are you Peter Foreman &#8211; a landlord who owns two buildings on jay Street who can&#8217;t stop talking about how zoning changes would be preferable to landmarking &#8211; yeah, preferable for HIM. Or do you work for our old friends, Two Trees? Wallentas &amp; Son also employ the BID, or the more benign sounding &#8220;dumbo improvement district&#8221; ( aka BID) &#8211;  if so you, epc, would be in the good company of wolves in sheep&#8217;s clothing.<br />
Stop putting fear and doubt into residents&#8217; minds. landmarking was started to stop thoughtless demolition of special buildings and neighborhoods in order to preserve their unique sense of place &#8211; which dumbo still has, even if trains no longer run into the lobby of 55 Washington (another one of your hair brained examples) Landmarking is about adaptive RE-use, not trying to stop time. And all the nonsense you spout about not doing anything to preserve open space, not limiting development, not protecting commercial space and lofts is all total BULLS***. Who the hell is paying you?<br />
People, go straight to the LPC website to get the real deal. Or check out  The Historic Districts Council website. Or ask in the Brooklyn Historical Society. Or check out the info on the DNA website. Or look up more information on the Municiple Arts Society website.<br />
This epc joker is a fraud. Don&#8217;t believe someone who is so clearly driven by a personal agenda. And that agenda, I guess, is greed.</p>
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		<title>By: epc</title>
		<link>http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-36500</link>
		<dc:creator>epc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 03:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/#comment-36500</guid>
		<description>Conversion could be slowed down if not halted by use of zoning (I have no idea what the zoning is here other than it must be some mix of residential and industrial/commercial already).  

Landmarking won&#039;t stop residential conversions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conversion could be slowed down if not halted by use of zoning (I have no idea what the zoning is here other than it must be some mix of residential and industrial/commercial already).  </p>
<p>Landmarking won&#8217;t stop residential conversions.</p>
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		<title>By: Thriving</title>
		<link>http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-36494</link>
		<dc:creator>Thriving</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/#comment-36494</guid>
		<description>I agree, landmarking would be a mixed bag. Personally I&#039;m excited about all the existing and new businesses in the neighborhood, including many that have no retail/storefront presence but still add a lot to our culture - and I think it would be a significant loss if these businesses were pushed out in favor of residences.

At the same time, it seems that Walentas et al plan to do residential conversion on the buildings currently housing small non-retail businesses anyway, not sure landmarking will have much impact on this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, landmarking would be a mixed bag. Personally I&#8217;m excited about all the existing and new businesses in the neighborhood, including many that have no retail/storefront presence but still add a lot to our culture &#8211; and I think it would be a significant loss if these businesses were pushed out in favor of residences.</p>
<p>At the same time, it seems that Walentas et al plan to do residential conversion on the buildings currently housing small non-retail businesses anyway, not sure landmarking will have much impact on this.</p>
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		<title>By: epc</title>
		<link>http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-36492</link>
		<dc:creator>epc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 19:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/#comment-36492</guid>
		<description>Brooklyn Heights&#039; commercial strips only survive because of the lunch crowds from the courts and the couple office buildings on Court.  Landmarking isn&#039;t a panacaea.  It won&#039;t preserve artists&#039; lofts, it won&#039;t preserve small, light industry that remains in DUMBO, it won&#039;t restore the belgian brick/cobblestones to the streets.  

It will increase property values, it will increase the number of residents, it will increase the amount of square feet converted to residential space from commercial.  And it won&#039;t do anything to prevent development of the remaining open spaces in the neighborhood. 


It&#039;d be better to landmark individual buildings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brooklyn Heights&#8217; commercial strips only survive because of the lunch crowds from the courts and the couple office buildings on Court.  Landmarking isn&#8217;t a panacaea.  It won&#8217;t preserve artists&#8217; lofts, it won&#8217;t preserve small, light industry that remains in DUMBO, it won&#8217;t restore the belgian brick/cobblestones to the streets.  </p>
<p>It will increase property values, it will increase the number of residents, it will increase the amount of square feet converted to residential space from commercial.  And it won&#8217;t do anything to prevent development of the remaining open spaces in the neighborhood. </p>
<p>It&#8217;d be better to landmark individual buildings.</p>
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		<title>By: Rumor?</title>
		<link>http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-36491</link>
		<dc:creator>Rumor?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:33:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/#comment-36491</guid>
		<description>True, Front St Pizza, et al will flourish with all the construction workers that will be here when the additional conversions happen.  But after that...it&#039;ll be a no-man&#039;s-land during the day.  Except perhaps for the nannies taking care of the kids, but I&#039;m not sure how much pizza they eat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True, Front St Pizza, et al will flourish with all the construction workers that will be here when the additional conversions happen.  But after that&#8230;it&#8217;ll be a no-man&#8217;s-land during the day.  Except perhaps for the nannies taking care of the kids, but I&#8217;m not sure how much pizza they eat.</p>
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		<title>By: Vinegar Hill Res.</title>
		<link>http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-36480</link>
		<dc:creator>Vinegar Hill Res.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 20:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/#comment-36480</guid>
		<description>Front St. Pizza does great business and it seems like it&#039;s mainly local police, firemen, municipal / construction workers, etc along with a mix of locals. I can&#039;t see them hurting if a lot of the commercial spaces disappear. Peas &amp; Pickles, meh. I heart Foragers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Front St. Pizza does great business and it seems like it&#8217;s mainly local police, firemen, municipal / construction workers, etc along with a mix of locals. I can&#8217;t see them hurting if a lot of the commercial spaces disappear. Peas &amp; Pickles, meh. I heart Foragers.</p>
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		<title>By: epc</title>
		<link>http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-36479</link>
		<dc:creator>epc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 18:03:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbonyc.com/2007/10/01/dock-st-joint-statement/#comment-36479</guid>
		<description>The benefits of landmarking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The benefits of landmarking.</p>
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