Dumbo NYC

Just wondering why this is being held at 5 pm? I presume I am not the only one who works in the city and cannot be home this early. Would have liked to attend.

The hair color question - I think Marissa probably was more referencing her ethnicity than really her haircolor (I don't mean that in a bad way).

I think the area is as safe as many neighborhoods in NYC. I also think that the chatter on this thread is not necessarily over the top, but also not as bad as it might sound to someone who doesn't live here. I think the chatter is because people actually care about safety in this neighborhood and it is a small enough community to be able to talk about it. (It's great that people have a forum such as this one to share, so that people know what and who to look out for.)

Also- I've read and heard that using Front Street seems to be a safe route from the subway. I wouldn't necessarily rule this apartment out. The area will most likely improve and until then, common sense always helps!

Marisa...I live in Vinegar Hill. Its a great neighborhood. If the rent seems fair you should go for it. Some of the chatter on this thread is over the top and not very reflective of what I have seen day to day in the neighborhood. I would take it in advisement but would not make it the only reason for turning down a good apt.

Why would hair color be relevant to one's decision to move into a neighborhood? (Not trying to be argumentative, I'm just genuinely curious.)

Marisa, if you were looking to buy over here I'd advise you to take the place on Gold Street, walk home at night by 10 or take a cab to your door and just wait out the neighborhood improvement for a couple of years.

If it's a rental, unless you absolutely love the neighborhood and plan on staying for several years, it might be better to look in a slightly more established neighborhood where you'll feel safer on your own. It's no fun to feel trapped in your own apartment.

so current dumbo residents, if you had a friend (say late 20's female, 5'6, blond), would you advise her against moving to an apt on gold st? (and no, not the loft bldg.)
i checked this blog out as some of my typical apt renter research and am really doubting i'm going to take this place now.

I would believe that. If panhandling in DUMBO wasn't a profitable business there would be none. Cracky and Smokey has enterprised it and has now franchised it to green hat, cane dude, wobbly dude with no shirt, etc.

I saw one of the panhandlers in Forager's last night converting her change into bills. The guy at the counter later told me he estimates they make about $3.00 per hour.

I haven't had any run-ins with the pair at P&P. My husband and I walk by them pretty often and for some reason they leave us alone. I know they have a place to live, I've heard the woman talking to a P&P employee about what she does at home and the vanilla tea she likes to drink. It seems really surprising and scary that these two have subjected others to verbal tirades, not to mention chasing people and throwing stones. Can't see any reason why they haven't tried this with us... probably just a matter of time.

I've just started to cross the street rather than deal with them and we stopped shopping at P&P about a month ago. We're not going to turn a blind eye on someone who clearly needs help, but we're also not going to pay a daily toll to this pair just to walk peacefully down our own street. I think it would be better for everyone if Dumbo residents and visitors saved the dollars and change they hand out and give the money to an organization like City Harvest instead. Or better yet, just hand out food.

The guy with the green hat is creepy. I have seen him hanging around outside my building or riding very slowly down Front Street checking everyone out. He's someone I call 311 about. The pair at P&P seem more like an annoyance rather than a threat to me. Seeing the guy in the green hat watching my block and neighbors with a glassy-eyed stare is frightening. I'll call the cops on him every day if I have to rather than leave him out there to trouble the people who live on my street.

Vinegar Hill resident, I couldn't agree with you more. Give in to their needs and they wish you with blesses from the almighty God himself. Want to dare and not give them change it's a fiery inferno of damnation from these panhandlers. Vinegar Hill res what are your experiences like with panhandlers over there? Update, Green hat now rides around with on a BMX bike looking to beg for change. He's the guy with the cast.

Anon II- I agree, I think a lot of the people giving them money don't live in the neighborhood. But I have started to take note when I see someone give them money (as I am often out and about walking my dog) and many of them are locals. I even recently saw what looked like a local give Cracky money and then have his toddler give her a high five. Weird.
Give it up for the crack addict!

Vinegar Hill Res- I couldn't agree with you more.

It really seems to oversimplify the situation to write that the Dumbo panhandlers are the innocent less fortunate and we should just leave them in place in front of P&P. If they were only asking for money then posters like "Uh Oh" may have a point. The fact is that there have been too many complaints of verbal and physical harassment to let things stand as they are for much longer. Drug related crime is up in Dumbo, I heard this from the police myself. None of us should sit back and kid ourselves about safety in this neighborhood.

We can also look at the brightside that with the winter coming they shouldn't be standing outside as much as they do now. Who knows though, as crack can lure these vultures out even in the dead of winter.

It's probably mostly the people who don't live in the neighborhood that give them money then. Since it doesn't affect them one way or the other. I heard smokey or crackey (the female) say to some guy. "You know it's hard out here, everyday is a struggle. Thanks you so much for helping me and God bless you" What's so hard about standing on a street corner begging for change to feed a drug habit (probably crack). Then having the nerve to say it's a struggle. Struggle for what to find some money to smoke crack? These people are crazy.

I wish it were that simple. Living across the street, I constantly see people giving smokey and cracky money. I don't get it- do they really think they are doing something good?- but I certainly can't stop them. I think most of the people reading this thread don't give them money.

It's very simple people. DON'T GIVE THESE PANHANDLERS ANY MONEY!!! They will take the hint and invest their time somewhere else. You need to counter their actions with your own and we could all start by not give them a penny. Let them b!tch and complain all they want but they will never receive a dime. These people are all able to work. Crackey and smokey are smart enough to beg for money to support their drug habits, then they are smart enough to earn a living just like the rest of us.

Thank you, Dumbowatch!

First of all, there is nothing creepy about wanting to keep your neighborhood as safe as possible.

Second, some of these people ARE criminals! To believe otherwise is just foolish.

And finally, how do you know that Peter and/or anyone else involved in Dumbowatch is NOT using time and energy to help the less fortunate? I think we can all agree that there are much better ways of helping the less fortunate than giving a drug addict cash to buy drugs.

New York will never be rid of panhandlers, but I think we can do our part to keep our little neighborhood as safe as possible and one way to do that (for various reasons) is to discourage panhandlers from harassing people for money constantly.

As Dumbowatch has pointed out- there are laws on the books that make it illegal to beg for money outside of an ATM location. So in many instances, these panhandlers ARE breaking the law and not protected by free speech.

Uh Oh is probably just Smokey on his blackberry. ha ha.

A DUMBOwatch member wrote: "We live in the Vista and one of our neighbors was mugged several nights ago at midnight at the corner of Bridge and Front. She was on her cell phone when it happened and was grabbed from behind by a 6'+ man who placed his hand over her mouth. Several Vista residents heard her scream and were downstairs within minutes with the police quickly following. The man was apprehended (along with one or two others the police had been looking for) outside the York Street subway station."

This is just one of many stories brought to my attention by DUMBO residents. The goal for our LOCAL CHANGE campaign is not about ridding annoyances or to gentrify the DUMBO. The panhandlers represent a bigger picture of how profitable it can be working in the area. For years, the neighborhood had two regularly seen beggars in front of P&P. From what I've noticed there are now nine, and the number will only increase especially when nothing is being done. Secondly, they exemplify the fact that they can get away with crimes of verbal/and or physical harassment.

Our goal is to show everyone in DUMBO, including loiterers that the neighborhood is watching, and we are playing an active role in keeping the area safe. Word will spread quickly when the regulars are not standing outside of their usual location, and it will hopefully deter criminals from coming into the area. Lastly, we are indirectly telling the police that they need to pick up the slack. I find being followed, attacked and mugged creepy.

DUMBOwatch@gmail.com

"Hmmmm," my experiences in the posher neighborhoods of Manhattan are contrary to yours.

I went to school on Park Ave., in that elitist area called "Carnegie Hill," right down the block from that fancy French high school Brad Pitt is researching for his kids. I was harassed by panhandlers all the time.

As an adult, I've worked on 5th Ave, and found them there too. On the street. Holding signs. Showing me their sick children.

In fact, on 5th Ave. there was a panhandler that sat in the Chase ATM's after bank hours.

To be sure, New Yorkers have tried to get rid of panhandlers in the past. Remember Giuliani? And every time, the ACLU gave the NYPD a beat down for their efforts.

Why don't Madison Avenue and Soho see any panhandlers? The community/businesses/police are clearly doing something Dumbo isn't.

While I generally agree with the reservations felt by 'uh oh,' I'm disappointed that he's resorted to a personal attack which distracts from the issues.

Begging is protected by the First Amendment right to free expression. As are other odious parts of speech, like caricature, parody, and satire.

Also protected is hosting a blog, starting a community action board, and calling the police to complain.

The issue of civil rights crops up when one group chooses to use their first amendment rights to prevent another group from using theirs.

That debate won't be settled on a blog. Or on the street. Or in anyone's condo. It'll be settled in court. I'm not a lawyer, but a cursory examination of legal precedent available on-line makes it clear that the law is on the side of panhandlers.

They're not criminals. They're just annoying. And if annoying were grounds for arrest, well, from someone's perspective, whether neighbor, sibling, or spouse, we'd all be in jail.

I certainly would be.

There's nothing creepy about it dumbass. At least someone is making an honest effort. How about you go shove that 6 pack where the sun don't shine. Peter - rock on brother!

Green hat has been camping out at the F station on York St. Don't give him change or money. Only offer him food and see what he says.

by the way, f*ck you, buy me this 6 pack now! god bless you.

by the way, god bless you and you ARE buying me this 6 pack!

Peter/DUMBOWATCH: there's something very creepy about what you're doing. organizing folks to effect punitive conditions on the less fortunate seems like a terrible waste of a clearly well organized/well motivated mind.
i'd be truly impressed if you could dedicate this kind of conviction to positive outreach.

Interesting string, 'probably has run its course, but...

...as an outsider, it looks like Peter's approach is right on. Didn't Giulianni get rid of the 'squeegee men' by arresting them for jaywalking? So, besides the anti-solicitation code, don't y'all have an anti-loitering law, especially when dealing with places of business? Also, what about Markowitz' Community Service Center - they say they take resident Brooklyn residents' complaints?

In 2004, the city of Orlando, Florida passed an ordinance (Orlando Municipal Code section 43.86) requiring panhandlers to obtain a permit from the municipal police department. The ordinance further makes it a crime to panhandle in the commercial core of downtown Orlando, as well as within 50 feet of any bank or automated teller machine. It is also considered a crime in Orlando for panhandlers to make false or untrue statements, or to disguise themselves, to solicit money, and to use money obtained for a claim of a specific purpose (e.g. food) to be spent on anything else (e.g. wine). The potential for these latter restrictions to be enforced is minimal.

In Santa Cruz, CA, there are regulations for panhandlers on where they can and cannot "Spange". For example, they must be a certain distance away from the door of any business.

The Atlanta, Georgia, city council approved a ban on panhandling on August 16, 2005, and Mayor Shirley Franklin is expected to sign the ban into law.

Thats great TBone. I also called 311 this weekend and reported a complaint with the illegal begging in front of P&P. I found out that there are two methods of making reports, and you can do both. The first is a standard complaint which gets relayed to the 84th precinct. The other is to put a suggestion of what to do with the situation. My suggestion: "The police should inform them that it is illegal to beg for money in front of areas with ATM machines. If the warning is ignored, they should be arrested." Remember it is crucial to relay the section 10-136(b)(2) of the New York City Administrative Code since even the police may not know of it. They will give me an update within 8 hours. I am only one voice, and the likelihood of this working is slim. I am in the process of creating a network of concerned DUMBO residents to get us heard. We all want results, so we all need to work for it. My plan is to band 30 members (DUMBOwatch) and set a date when we will all place a complaint to the 84th precinct. This will get us noticed, and if we don't see immediate change, we do it weekly until things get done.

The first campaign for DUMBOwatch is called LOCAL CHANGE. Please join us my emailing dumbowatch@gmail.com

I don't have a pathological dislike of P&P. I was really happy when they first came around... A selection of beer and sandwiches,within walking distance, in an otherwise fairly desolate neighborhood (superfine was still just the kitchen of the between-the-bridges pub) to the loft building where I was recording music.

I don't like aggressive panhandling though. And I do have a strong disdain for hopelessness/victim mentality. And I really _hate_ a "there's nothing we can do *shrug and hand over cash*" maneuver.

Why do you automatically assume the security guard is gonna assault these people? Why can't he just 'god bless' them so much they can't get to the paying customers?

Also, I've seen the NYPD do a VERY good job at 'moving along' loiterers, no matter how public the space they occupy. It can be done. P&P has to take some action... and as long as they have a strong complacent customer base that will pay through the nose for whatever is handed to them, they won't.

Again, you want to get rid of the panhandlers? Tell Peas and Pickles you will not spend another dime in the store until they take care of the issue. They will do it.

And no, I don't live in DUMBO, it's too expensive. (shall we start drawing analogies between the overpriced/low-quality goods at P&P and the DUMBO real estate offerings?)

So, it's up to you guys. What kind of neighborhood do you want to live in? Are you transients, or is this YOUR neighborhood? Are you willing to forgo a little bit of convenience to have it be your neighborhood?

You decide, but right now you're being played as a bunch of naive scared rich folks who'd rather hand over cash than deal with anything; by both the store AND the panhandlers.

If you think this is a problem:
Don't give the panhandlers money, ever.
Tell Peas and Pickles they won't get another dime of your money until they're gone. Tell Peas and Pickles you live in DUMBO and you will ask everyone in your building to do the same. Tell them it's YOUR neighborhood and you don't appreciate feeling uncomfortable in front of YOUR local grocery.


Or don't.

We can see P&P from our apartment window and earlier this evening, my husband witnessed smokey and cracky admiring smokey's large wad of cash. I'm sorry, but those two are more than able (physically at least) to work. They are not panhandling so they can feed themselves. Have you tried offering to buy them something to eat in P&P? I doubt they would accept it. To the people who continue to give them money- please stop! You are not helping ANYONE by giving them money. In fact, you are only succeeding in furthering their drug use and causing a potentially dangerous situation in my neighborhood.

My husband called 311 tonight to lodge a complaint about smokey and cracky (he was transferred to 911 because they consider this an emergency, I guess). A few minutes later, a cop on a bicycle came by and chatted with them for a few minutes. The panhandlers then went right back to the spots they've been in all night and the cop rode away. My husband made a point to tell the 911 operator that there is an ATM in P&P, but I guess this made no difference. The cop did nothing but have what looked like a very "buddy buddy" conversation with them. In fact, earlier this evening we saw the same cop ride up to Cracky (is that the female?) and just stop and chat with her like old friends. I could be wrong, but I have a pretty good view and that is certainly what it looked like.

Those of you who don't see this as a potential problem.... do you have children? A wife or girlfriend? Smokey and Cracky have never threatened or harrassed me personally, but I have seen them be aggressive towards others. I don't know about you, but I would prefer they find somewhere else to panhandle before they turn against me.

Hysterical- I don't think anyone here is saying that they live in fear of being stabbed with a knife or a syringe on a daily basis, or equating panhandling with violence in every instance. But one incident is one too many. I am not waiting for someone to be hurt (or even for someone to be robbed), to do something about the situation. Discouraging drug addicts from constantly hanging around our neighborhood is one way to TRY and make this a safer place to live.

"P&P is the only game in town." NOT.
I've lived here since '98. Used to shop in the Heights prior to Peas opening. My dissatisfaction with Peas came to a head about the same time as Fresh Direct came about, which is what I mostly do now. Fresh Direct, Whole Foods, Fairway, Trader Jo.
Sure, I have to drive and find parking etc when I go to Whole Foods and TraderJ, but the quality is so far superior, it's worth it. The last time I stepped foot in Peas was to get a household product which, it turned out, they didn't have. Be a little resourceful, News2NY.

And, not for nothing, I know Foragers is expensive, but, again, if you care about quality, Foragers is quite good. Also, for quick Deli items, there's also Jimmy's on Jay and Water, and that place over next to Starbucks, and for quality cold cuts etc, Bagel Delight.

I mean, really, the more I think about it, Peas is vile. It smells, the produce has flies and fleas all over them, the help doesn't wash their hands, stuff on the shelves are caked in dust,the cashiers consistently try to short change. I wouldn't think about eating from that buffet. Yuk. Overall, it's just bad energy the second you walk in the door.

Peas is good for cigarettes and gum.

Dumbo was expensive: Just think of some overly aggressive vigilante rent a cop doing something stupid like assaulting someone. The security guard idea works if the panhandlers are on P&P property, rather than a public street; a street that everyone has right to be on.

I do not think P&P can do much of anything unless ordinances like the ATM example Peter found actually work.

They could complain to their landlord Walentas. Of course those complaints are amplified if other business tenants put pressure on Walentas as well. Collective businesses and resident pressure on the police or community leaders will be what what resolves this issue.

Bottom line, P&P is the only "game" in town when it comes to Dumbo, and it obvious that there is a pathological dislike of P&P on your part.

Notwithstanding your disdain of their prices or the the quality of the goods and services(I happen to agree), your campaign to boycott them amounts to peeing into the wind.

You said "you people in dumbo." Do you actually live here?

@New2NY:

Wait, a security guard can't legally occupy someone's time on a public sidewalk, but a panhandler legally can?

I don't get it. In that scenario, what charges could the panhandlers bring, that P&P couldn't bring now?

...and since when does this city run by the book?

Again, take a look around... this doesn't happen everywhere. The problem could be solved. P&P doesn't have to. You folks in dumbo simply have too much money to be inconvenienced.

@Mr. Turner: Your attitude is insulting to hard working disabled people everywhere. Being disabled is not being hopeless. These folks aren't hanging outside P&P because they're disabled, they're hanging out because it's profitable.

STOP GIVING P&P MONEY UNTIL THEY HANDLE THE ISSUE.

Pea and Pickle has tried dealing with them for years and boycotting them because they can't really do anything about it certainly isn't fair. I'm fairly certain the panhandlers are not "coming into our neighborhood." It is more a case of us coming into theirs. I think most of the panhandlers that work Pea and Pickle live in the housing projects on Bridge Street.

I've never really seen any of these guys as threatening...they ask for change...I have some to spare I give it to them...If I don't, I simply say "Hi, have a nice day." At least two of the regular panhandlers are disabled. What are they supposed to do?

Not naive dumbo was expensive, just smart enough to know that a private security guard has no power to as you say "legally occupy their time" on a public sidewalk! That Ivy JD of mine has finally paid off:) Using your logic, the panhandlers could bring charges against P&P.

Oh my god that's a terrible article.. I just moved to Dumbo with my daughter and I hate having walking past those bums with her. They have a very threatening demeanour and its no great leap to imagine them getting violent. Especially that sinister one who stares at me relentlessly then says God Bless You when I walk past. Dumbo is an amazing neighborhood but there is just this one thing that needs to be cleared up
Sandy

KB:

Thanks for the article. I still think one incident 12 years ago isn't enough to constitute a trend-- especially when you consider how many thousands of panhandlers have occupied Manhattan in the intervening years without committing similar crimes-- but I can understand why you would feel more concerned.

And kudos to everyone who brings evidence to the table-- even though we may disagree on how to interpret it, we're all on firmer ground for having it.

Just for the doubters, terrible things can and do happen when you allow your neighborhood to fill up with unsavory people. Look at this from midtown manhattan just a few years ago..

NY Times article

Peter I support what you're doing. We need to get these addicts off our streets before something awful happens.

@New2NY: So peas and pickles can't hire a security guard to occupy the time of the panhandlers? A security guard could legally occupy their attention so customers don't have to go through the harassment, no?

Why haven't they done it? Because they don't have to... people just keep throwing money at them.

I can understand your naivety New2NY... after all, you're new here. But look around, this isn't a problem everywhere, so there obviously is some solution. Maybe grease the cops... whatever it takes. They would do it, if the threat of losing money was there.

Of course I read the posts. I didn't say that DUMBOO was cheap six years ago, and I explicitly stated that the statistics don't say anything about panhandling.

I just don't think we DUMBO residents should start to panic about syringe-stabbings and knifings when the evidence suggests that such events are exceedingly rare.

Panhandling is a nuisance, and if you can find any legal statutes that define it as a crime, then by all means go after it as such.

Dumbo was expensive 6 years ago, you are ignorant because you did not read the posts. The police are impotent do anything unless a crime has been committed.

Peter S are you talking about Front St. Pizza or is there a ATM in P&P?

Thanks, anon. Useful statistics. They show that major crime has gone down substantially in recent years.

The stats don't reflect panhandling complaints or other quality of life issues, but they do suggest that you're pretty unlikely to be stabbed with a knife or a syringe while you're walking around DUMBO. Let's not conflate panhandling and assault.

(By the way, I support what you're doing, Peter.)

For the person above who inquired about crime statistics in 84th Pct. (Dumbo, Heights, Cobble Hill, Downtown Brooklyn etc) there is this link:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/crim...

this is from http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menugetf.cgi and the citation is to section 10-136(b)(2) of the New York City Administrative Code, Prohibition against certain forms of aggressive solicitation

No person shall solicit, ask or beg within ten feet of any entrance or exit of any bank or check cashing business during its business hours or within ten feet of any automated teller machine during the time it is available for customers' use. Provided, however, that when an automated teller machine is located within an automated teller machine facility, such distance shall be measured from the entrance or exit of the automated teller machine facility (10ft). Provided further that no person shall solicit, ask or beg within an automated teller machine facility where a reasonable person would or should know that he or she does not have the permission to do so from the owner or other person lawfully in possession of such facility. Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to prohibit the lawful vending of goods and services within such areas.
There is an ATM machine in the Deli, and luckily there are two Entrances in P&P.

Join the fight: petersunwoo@gmail.com

People who think Peas and Pickles are impotent are ignorant.

People who think you can get everyone to stop giving the panhandlers change are silly. You already know your neighborhood has transient foot traffic... they will give the panhandlers money.

If P&P stops getting local support, you will see change.

_Someone_ is making alot of money of Peas And Pickles. Do you really think that person is going to let some crackheads mess that up?

BOYCOTT PEAS AND PICKLES UNTIL THEY DO SOMETHING.

I repeat:

DON'T SPEND MONEY AT PEAS AND PICKLES.

They _WILL_ take care of the problem. Guaranteed.

I live across the street from P&P. I am going to talk to the board of my building about this.

Not knowing how widespread this site's readership may be, perhaps folks here could also bring the issue up in their own buildings, with their boards. Or, make sure every resident in their building is given written information about not giving the panhandlers cash. The more people understand the issue, the less number of folks we will see giving them money. Walentas should do the same for his business tenants.

Finally, I am not defending cracky and smoky; I cannot stand walking pass them as much as the next person. But, if they have actually threatened, or thrown rocks etc, at people, then file a formal complaint with the police! To actually get results from anyone in authority, the community should be prepared to show something more CONCRETE than "I just do not feel safe."

Without that, there is the risk that the response would be "we can't do anything", or "that was part of the bargain when you moved two block away from public housing".

"god bless you"

right on!

word!

Hear, hear. It's high time we did something about this blight on our neighborhood. Peter I offer you my full support.

I too have been following this thread every day, and although in general I hate message board/blog commenting (I find people can often be defensive and rude for no real reason, I guess due to the anonymity of the web?), but I do think this is a healthy discussion. I think most of us agree that 1) people should not give these panhandlers money (we should all want to help the less fortunate, but there are better ways to do it), 2) there is not a whole lot the police can do unless we report any actual crimes they commit (I, for one, would certainly report a crime if I saw it) and 3) we want to feel safe when we walk out the door and it is not worth the risk of having potentially unstable panhandlers (who, from what I have read and heard, have threatened, harassed, thrown things, etc) constantly in our great neighborhood. I don't think that anyone is coming up with "hysterical fantasies" of what they might do, I think people simply, and for good reason, want to feel as safe as possible in their neighborhood, regardless of the fact that we live in an urban area and regardless of whether we are a 6' 3" male or a 5 foot pregnant female. And make no mistake about it, we are all vulnerable. It is definitely time we do something about this. Peter- I will be emailing you as my husband and I certainly would attend a meeting to discuss this issue!

Why not just contract some guys from Blackwater and neutralize the situation. Plain and simple.

I'm going to do something about this. I read this blog entry everyday at work and it fuels my animosity towards these people. I will visit the neighborhood precinct and see what we can do. I plan to print the comments posted on this thread and highlight the major complaints and harassment testimonials for them to read. I want these people out by the end of this year. I want to spend my year 2008 without worrying that my girlfriend will be in danger when she walks the dog or stops by P&P at night. Seriously this needs to stop. I noticed that there are a new generation of panhandlers in the neighborhood and someone needs to take action before it gets out of hand. Better to stop it now than waiting until someone gets hurt.

My email is petersunwoo@gmail.com I don't mind having a neighborhood meeting in my apartment in 42 Main Street. All those that care about the issue are welcome to come. Any weekend is good or weekday after 8pm is cool with me. Tell me what you guys think. Lets stop talking and finally take some action.

Anon II hits the nail on the head, the police can't do anything. From what I have read here, they are drug dealers, fences for stolen goods, they threaten expectant mothers, and throw rocks at folks that refuse to give them money.

If the panhandlers have done all that they are accused of, file a formal complaint with the police! That would be more useful than the hysterical fantasies of what you think they might do...last time I checked you can't be arrested for what people think could happen.

In the end, P&P is impotent on the matter as well. They do not own the sidewalks outside their store. What could they or we do? For those that are so incensed about the issue, start a petition that can be sent to the powers that be in Dumbo...Walentas, politicos, police brass etc. Once these folks see that their well-off constituents are pissed, perhaps they will lean on precinct brass to harass the beggars away.

You can also STOP giving them money!

I want to add it is not the cops fault for not doing anything their hands are tied. They cannot arrest a person for walking around and asking for change. A cop that I spoke to says it is equivalent of someone walking around and saying "good morning". And these panhandlers move around enough where a cop can't see them grabbing someone, screaming profanities , throwing rocks, etc. I agree with all earlier posts and that is DON'T GIVE THESE PEOPLE ANY CHANGE. YOU PEOPLE WHO THINK YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING GOOD IN THE COMMUNITY ARE ACTUALLY RUINING IT! Use your brains.

Also, can anyone provide crime stats for DUMBO? It seems like the major problems in the area are panhandling and property theft— very bad, of course, but not the threats to life and limb we're discussing here.

What's all this about strangers stabbing passers-by on the street with syringes? Can anyone provide evidence that this has happened in the nation, let alone in our neighborhood?

A Lexis-Nexis search turns up only one such incident in the United States: A deputy sheriff in Mississippi claimed to have been stabbed by a needle in 2002. He was soon fired for refusing to submit to a drug test, and it was later revealed that he was had painkillers and cocaine in his system.

Pure sensationalism. Sounds like the McDonald's Playland urban legend to me.

P.S. I have seen one of the women who works at P&P screaming at a cop to please do something because it is hurting their business and of course, he couldn't/wouldn't. I suspect that their hands are really tied at P&P and it isn't that they don't want to get involved. However, we should continue to have a dialogue with the people at P&P to see if there is anything more they can do and if there is anyway we (the customers) can do to help them.

I really can't believe people think that because they put off a "don't F with me vibe", they will NEVER be bothered or potentially hurt by one of these panhandlers. I am an extremely petite, blonde white girl who thinks I am a tough motherf'er, but I am smart enough to know that a mentally ill and/or violent, desperate person does not see my tough attitude, but simply a vulnerable five foot, 100 lb chick.

I have yet to be harassed when alone (although my husband and I have been bothered when together), but as I said in my previous post, these people are UNPREDICTABLE and it is just not worth the risk. I agree with a lot of posters that something needs to be done and I definitely plan on speaking with P&P about putting up a sign and I will be calling 311 often.

Alinear-

"Living in a city is about coexisting. If someone asks you something politely, respond politely. If someone bites at you, be prepared to bite back."

Are you trying to say that if I and my unborn child get attacked, I should simply attack back? C'mon, let's be realistic here. Just because we live in a "city" doesn't mean we should have to live with crime and harassment. Of course, living in an urban area, we assume we will have to deal at some point with "a few odd characters", but that doesn't mean we can't actively do something about it, which is why I am encouraging people not to give them money. My husband and I are never rude to them when they are polite to us, but most of these people have mental issues and/or drug problems and you can never predict when they will lose it and harass or hurt someone. Dealing with them is not dealing with the "known", they will always be the "unknown" due to their mental state/drug habits. It's just not worth the risk.

Oh, Basil is right of course. But it is still so much fun to hear about a nimwit who actually give some guy a six pack whilst still at the checkout in Bridge Fresh.
Hello??
That would just never happen to me because, like blurbyblub, I am "not to be f****d with" - and a petite white female too.
Anyway - why didnt this woman call the police, wait for them to come in the safety of the store full of people and then press charges - if the guy was still around?
I actually told some huge black guy on Front St. ( ok - now someone can call me a racist - whatever) that surely there must be a more lucrative neighborhood for him to beg in. He laughed - but maybe someone else he would stab with a syringe - I dont know. People gotta just say no.
But, since some folks can't, or seem to attract harrassment or are just unlucky, then a campaign to address the issue is a great idea.
I don't shop at P&P ( ridiculous prices!! Crap service!) - and though I never really get bothered by the agressive panhandlers, I hate to see them threaten other people - so if someone starts something that requires people signing something or calling the police or boycotting - I will support it.

I agree with Blurbyburb - I am also female and am no longer accosted. I have not once acknowledged these peas & pickles individuals and after the passing of time, I am now spared the repeated requests for change (as well as the "god bless yous"). This does mean, however, that I look straight ahead and/or straight down and/or cross the street when passing peas & pickles so as to avoid any chance for someone to attempt to engage me. And that irritates me. But not as much as someone asking for change. And then taking the "higher ground" by "blessing me" anyhow.

I challenge someone to take up the charge and form an organized campaign to either address this issue with the city and/or let P&P that they will lose business if they do not attempt to address this problem (private vs. public space arguments aside, the store owners could at least be vigilant in phoning 311, or whatever the relevant city number is). P&P could also ask their patrons not to support the individuals on the street outside of their store. This could be done simply enough: with a sign saying "If an individual solicits you for change please direct that person to _______ (insert relevant shelter, not-for-profit organization, government agency)." Another alternative is a boycott and letter campaign ("Dear P&P, I'm a patron of your store, I continuously feel harassed/unsafe/irritated whenever I patronize your business, and I will boycott your business until you take positive steps to alleviate this problem.") and then shop...well, elsewhere, I guess. Some action, any overt action, is certainly going to be mroe productive than a bunch of oldtimer v. newcomer/9-to-5er v. resident diatribes.

I love all the "tough guy/gal" comments on this thread. Let's see you loudmouths under pressure when one of these panhandlers pulls a knife on you, throws rocks at you or a loved one or better yet decides to spit in your face. Let's see you beat them up scrape your knuckles against their teeth mixed in with their blood. Not so tough now are you.

Oh for god's sake, if you look like a victim...is all I'm saying. Also, do you think the bums are the only ones who've been to hell and back? Obviously my policy works since I'm NEVER bothered by them.

exactly - wait until one of them stabs you (or your child) with a syringe, you won't feel so tough then

i love all of the tough guys (or girls, as the case may be) on these posts who think they can act tough with the junkies and that by doing so they won't F with you. dude, i'm 6'3" and 230, and i don't even want to mess with these people. they've seen more sh*t than you could imagine and they've got nothing to lose, so i'd think twice before acting so tough. besides, do you want junkie blood on your clothes? i don't think so.

The real problem is the bum-apologists that seem to populate Bumbo. If you idiots would stop giving money to harassing crackheads like Smokey and Crackey, they would find another hole to jump into. On the other hand, if you keep topping up their crack habit, its only a matter of time before something terrible happens in our neighborhood.

So then DB, are you going to make an appointment with movers or are you going to do something about your harassers?

so would you rather live in an area full of dirty harassing bums, or an area without? Seems to me that only a particularly comical kind of masochism would prompt you to choose the former.

I have to agree with that sentiment. I give them a "don't even think about talking to me or I'll put my foot right up your ass" look and they leave me alone. Btw - I'm female too.

you all need to harden the F up.

I saw Cane Guy in Bridge Grocery harass a lady on the line for beer. He basically walked up to the front of the register told her she was buying him beer. She was then going to give him one beer but he harassed her into giving him the whole six pack. He literally got up right in her face and said "c'mon lady you goin' to buy me this six pack". Needless to say the lady gave in.

Giving them food doesn't work either. My friend was in Pedro's the other day and one of the bums came in asking for money. The kind lady behind the counter gave him a plate of food, which he then sold for $1 to another customer! This demonstrates that the money you give these bums is NOT going to food..

saw cracky yesterday verbally assaulting some guy walking with his small child and dog b/c he ignored her when she asked him for money (the nerve of him, not stopping to help an addicted junkie get more crack while walking with his 2 year old son). she followed him all the way across washington street and the guy's son looked horrified. not the first time i've seen her get angry, either. and smokey, who took a brief pause from hustling some stolen CDs on the corner to watch the event unfold, just stood there and let her go off on this innocent father passing by minding his own business. seems that cracky wears the pants in that crackden. look, these dirtbags need to go. there's a huge difference between beggars (which we should all expect to some degree in this city) and angry, aggressive drub abusers. please stop giving them money. i'm all for helping those in need, but go thru the proper channels -- giving them more money for crack isn't helping anyone, and if you think the money you give them is going anywhere else (their hedge funds notwithstanding), you're kidding yourself. if you must give them something, give them a sandwich -- cracky looks like she could use one.

I agree. The easiest way to rid of these vermin is to not give them anything. So please stop giving change, food, BJs, etc. to these vermin scum and hopefully when the well runs dries they will go to another neighorhood. Maybe Brooklyn Heights.

I've lived here a while... in Brooklyn since 2001 and in the area since 2004. Long enough to feel local but short enough to be ok with the notion that some of the locals would probably consider me a yuppie a**hole out to ruin their 'hood with my home equity loan.

I can't say I've ever felt threatened by any of the panhandlers. I don't see why it is so hard to say "no, sorry" if you aren't inclined to "help" them. Eventually they'll probably move on, in the absence of the city giving the oil to the squeaky wheel. And if not at least you know who they are and generally what to expect when you encounter them. Dealing with knowns is always easier than dealing with unknowns.

I've not seen any of the locals get aggressive. But I have to laugh at the 'he threw a rock at my boyfriend' thing. If some dipshit threw a rock at me for not giving them change I'd probably find the nearest pipe and go to work on their pitching arm. I'm not saying I don't believe it happened... I'm just saying that if it did I can't believe that said boyfriend, presumably having testicles and all, just took it.

I'm a little baffled people would choose to live in an area that is semi-industrial, abutted by highways and housing projects, and not assume they are going to have to deal with a few odd characters or maybe (gasp) defend themselves or their neighbors against aggression once in a blue moon.

Living in a city is about coexisting. If someone asks you something politely, respond politely. If someone bites at you, be prepared to bite back. Or move to the suburbs and hope gypsies don't caravan through...

I asked the guys in Peas & Pickles last night about the panhandlers. They said they've called the police repeatedly but this hasn't helped. It seems like community action is the only solution, at least by putting pressure on the spineless fools who give them money.

Upon leaving P&P, my girlfriend and I were harassed by two separate bums. One was the very aggressive one that stands under the railing and occasionally tries to hawk stolen goods. The other was the guy in the wheelchair who routinely swears at me when I don't give him money.

Smokey and Crackey, the 'Beckhams of Dumbo', were nowhere to be seen. Probably managing their hedge fund investments or doing a 'Derelicte' inspired celebrity spread for Vogue.

Oh god, another one.

Wow - what an entertaining blog!
Comments:
1- Landmarking has NOT YET happened. We have been calendared by the LPC for a public hearing - now scheduled for OCT 30th. Look for info from the Neighborhood Association and the Historic Districts Council.
But "Mayor" is right, Landmarking will help to maintain a good balance of "old DUMBO" & new Dumbo, art & small industry along with residential, and it will help to limit over population because the scale of condos will be smaller and historic buildings will have to be adaptively reused.
2- DID is really the BID ( Business Improvement District) and they may be "fighting to preserve" DUMBO on the face of it, but behind the scenes their board of director president, Tom Montvel-Cohen of J condos, is lobbying local landlords & business owners to oppose landmarking. The DID sent out letters to commercial tenants & owners that insidiously suggested landmarking would hurt their business. Meanwhile, these BID board member developers ( Wallentas, Guttman, Montvel-Cohen, Forman, Benedetto) tear up the belgian block streets & historic buildings sans proper permits - and the BID says nada - they just ask the residents for money to "restore our beloved BB streets"
3_ The Park (Bklyn Bridge Park Conservancy- BBPC) also has a board chock full of developers who want to maximize profits and build their newer & newer condos on our waterfront - check out the "BBP Defense Fund" at parkdefense.org - get the other side of the story about our beloved (and shrinking) park and how full of caca the BBPC is.
4- panhandlers. I never gave them anything and they never bother me either. Maybe they just know I am cheap. But they suck. Everyone is right - stop giving them $, people! More loser beggars hang out in front of Jay Bar and Bridge Fresh on Jay St, too. I love all the jokes about Crackey & company, though. Hilarious.
5- Old timer & his ilk. enough whinging, you big baby. What did you do to preserve your precious hood when you had the chance ? - look to Vinegar Hill as an example, they had an easier time than DUMBO perhaps, but they are a buttoned up historic district. I guess you were drinking beer and enjoying the privacy of a nice quiet neighborhood without any violent crime instead of noticing what David Wallentas was up to. Or maybe you were one of the myriad artists he "bought" with free rent, who then testified in public hearings on his behalf in favor of zoning changes and development - that is, until Wallentas finally sold them out and they had to leave. Well, NY is always changing, so all I can say is you should have prepared yourself for inevitable change and tried to effect it for the better, rather than bitch & moan later.
Really like reading all the comments, though, on this very long message string - thanks everybody.

@ curious george

I was jumped in february on york and pearl st- great block to be on at 4am, and they of course ran back to the projects.
roomate got jumped in front of 86 jay bar four weeks ago by a group of teenagers, who of course, ran back to the projects after some patrons ran out to help.

5:14pm. Cane guy begging me and my friends for change over here at Pedro's.

4:41pm Saturday. Walked by the F train and saw green hat guy camped out in front the station begging for change.

Obviously you never saw or in any way experienced the "early DUMBO" because it was nothing like you describe. I fear for my life much more now than I ever did in this neighborhood before. It was a quiet, extremely convenient and happily ignored urban enclave. I don't blame anyone for wanting to develop it...hats off to them. It's about time. And I'm certainly not going to complain about it. But I do expect people to at least do a *little* bit of research before naively spouting off ignorant comments like the ones above.

I apologize for my rude behavior. I am insecure about my penis size. You see a girl I wanted to marry left me for a good looking artist that performed nude for some of the Rebar shows. He was well you know... hung. Sorry but calling me a dickhead makes me think of the guy's giant member, but at least I have a condo! F! you all with something bigger than my thumb.

What a dickhead.

look, i hate smokey and crackey more than anyone -- and trust me, one day it will get ugly out there and then all of you bleeding heart d-bags will eat your pacifist words -- but i need to point something else out from reading these posts all the time. i'm so sick of all of the early dumbo residents (artists, mostly) complaining about the new influx of money into dumbo. first of, f off -- sorry you didn't go to college, but it's not my problem. second, the money folk have done more for this neighborhood in the past two years than has happened in the past 200 years. i'm not even getting into it, but think police, lighting, sidewalks, food, stores, beautiful park, community events, etc, etc, etc.. so suck it already. i'm so sorry that you long for the days when you had to fear for your life in the absolute shithole that used to be dumbo. get over it. finally, if you want to blame someone, blame walentas and the other developers for building quality (debatable) housing here that young professionals (who don't quite want to pay manhattan prices) can afford. what, i'm supposed to pass up a great deal in a hot neghborhood b/c i'm going to ruin it for jackoff, the struggling artist. artists, meet progress; progress, show our artists friends what their soon-to-be homes in crown heights look like. deal with it, old-timers.

Please, please, please do NOT give money to the panhandlers outside of P&P. If no one gave them money, they would find someplace else to panhandle. You may not feel threatened, but as a young woman who sometimes needs to walk my dog alone at night, I do not want to take any chances. Dumbo is a great neighborhood and I love living there. These panhandlers are one of my only complaints. I am sorry they need the money, but to be honest, most of them look like they are more than able to work a real job. And as other posters have pointed out, your money is most likely going towards their drug habits. I implore people for the sake of us who feel threatened and vulnerable (I am pregnant which makes me feel particularly vulnerable) DO NOT give them a cent!!!!

Me, sorry to hear. do you mind me asking what st. corners did these incidents take place?

The panhandling situation in DUMBO is bad. Cracky and Smokey really need to go. I've been in this neighborhood for three years, and have never given one of them a dime. From day one I told them to stop asking me, and they are pretty good about it now. Cracky will just say, "God bless you" when I walk by- she pisses me off. It really pisses me off when I see 9-5ers in this neighborhood being all buddy buddy with that pair. Am I the only one who notices that they always have new shoes on?? There is a very aggressive guy who always wants to rap for change inside of peas and pickles- dumbo at 4am is a whole different place.
The only good thing to come of the influx of new dumbo residents is the upgraded police presence. We have 1 full time cop, and I've seen a few others. In the three years I've been here I have been jumped twice by thugs from the Projects. My roommate was jumped by teenagers a few weeks ago. I believe everyone has there place here in NYC, but it is ashame that the thug element has to ruin it for the poor people who just want a place to live. Vinegar hill won't bloom until developers turn the public housing into condos- eff it, I want to see the thug element driven out of here. Sad but true...

Methinks that the Nova Clutch area and St Ann's Warehouse needs to stay the way it is. The people in the big red buses are hesitant coming into DUMBO since that side looks abandoned and somewhat unwelcoming. If they only knew what was another block down we'd be in lots of trouble. Where can I sign up for the wall building?

I think any film permit issued to a production company to shoot here in Bumbo should have the proviso that Smokey and Crackey be hired as PAs, (or in the case of the recent Denzel heroin pusher epic, as extras or consultants). They could stand on the same corner but they'd have walkie talkies and could tell us where we can't park or walk. I think it would do wonders for their self esteem. That one guy who really screams would be an excellent 1st AD. Wheelchair guy could be hired to put an orange cone in his lap and wheel around saving parking spaces for VIPs. Obese woman who begs for food? Craft services.

Dumbohemians let's pool all our resources together to build a wall. This way we could build a great wall around the neighborhood. We could keep cracky, smokey, green hat guy, black, obese woman who begs for food, dumbo mayor, cane guy, wobbly dude and obese dumb tourists in big red buses out of the precious neighborhood. It worked in China to keep out the Mongolians. Methinks it should work here.

Sorry Mayor, but the big red tour buses are already here. Have you been by the Fulton Ferry landing lately? The Ferry Landing is one of the most historic points in Brooklyn. Also, how can we not forget that one of the nation's most historic landmarks, the Brooklyn Bridge, cuts through our neighborhood?

Also, tourists rarely bring cars to Dumbo. Regardless, the population of the neighborhood is growning and parking is a concern both for those who live and work in Dumbo. That is something that can partially be remedied by reforming parking regulations and the addition of new parking garages in the area.

Landmark preservation is an excellent idea. No one is suggesting that Dumbo become a corporate park.

Many of the stores in the Dumbo are started by people who do not want to play the corporate game. Are art gallaries and independent book publishers so offensive? Also, some of the new stores are transplants from Manhattan - where their rents had become too oppressive for them to operate profitably. Also, many of these stores are not the type where people will typically drive to them. They are more of the ilk where one takes the subway and walks up to the door (with the exception of the furniture stores).

Let us not forget that commercial occupants can help pay for Dumbo preservation. They are also vigilant occupants, who have a vested interest in seeing this neighborhood thrive. I am sure that they are just as interseted in seeing the belgian block streets (w/o potholes) and safety on the street.

Dumbo is not a land unto itself. It is part of a big City that is everchanging and evolving. No neighborhood in NYC has ever stayed the same for too long. Let's face it, there is a Starbucks just about everywhere in the USA, but there are a lot of unique things happening within Dumbo. Let's focus on the common elements for improvement. Ultimately, there is a lot of win-win possibilty for everyone.

Mayor - Landmarking hasn't happened yet but you can help by showing up to the LPC hearing on the ... 18th, I believe.

If it's still scheduled, and I haven't heard anything to the contrary, it'd be nice to have something posted here.

I'd rather have the panhandlers over the CHASE Bank

Tourists (not welcomed) Visitors (not welcomed)
Chase Bank (Definitely not welcomed) Fortune House (Horrible).

Parking situation is already pretty bad in DUMBO. The last thing we need are those big red tour buses hauling obese tourists to our neighborhood. Our neighborhood is unique because of its industrial beauty, art, and the people that reside in it. It can easily become a park for corporate America. Does anyone want Cold Stone or even better, another Starbucks in the neighborhood? Landmarking is the best thing that has happened to the neighborhood. The shops in DUMBO are completely useless other than the furniture. Preserving a quiet neighborhood is key for residential real estate prices. Does anyone care if the commercial rent goes up because of the popularity and high tourism? Already a hotel is expected to enter by the town triangle. It has begun because all of you "SUITS" keep coming in. (Entourage Reference). Don't get me wrong Anon, I love the neighborhood . I just hope it stays the way it is because there isn't anymore land in NEW YORK with the same charm.

Thank you Peter S for speaking my mind

Pretend that we want high end stuff? Hmm. In case anyone has noticed, it is not just residents who shop here. We are getting a significant amount of people from other neighborhoods, as well as tourists. We have a beautiful, distinctive (and historic) neighborhood. People want to visit it.

We also should realize that business directly serving everyday needs of residents are also becoming readily available to the neighborhood. A pharmacy is in the works and a Chase bank just opened. Also, let us not forget what we have had already for some time. Fresh Direct delivers and there a number of grocery stores in Brooklyn Heights. There is also the farmer's market by the courts, only a few minutes walk away.

BTW - Regarding Chinese food, last I checked, Fortune House delivers to Dumbo. They have been in business for quite some time, and I have not problems.

Speaking of local businesses... the panhandlers have a much better business plan than most of these new places. Cheeky Dogs, 100 haircuts at the new salon? Are people this rich in my neighborhood? I'm having trouble paying for my dog's kibble. I'm almost certain that the panhandling is much more lucrative than these wannabe Tribeca shops. Here are some ideas for people in the neighborhood with a lot of money. We need a Vietnamese Sandwich place for quick cheap good bites on the go. We need Chez Oskar from Fort Greene to open up shop. A Cafe Habana Truck outside of our horrific town triangle. A trendy thrift store like the ones you can find in Greenpoint. A clean chinese restaurant or something darn amazing like Joe's Shanghai or Congee Village. We need less Korean/Spanish Delis and have a real food market like Trader Joe's. We need to stop pretending that we want highend stuff and keep Brooklyn Real!

yeah, right? And like 1 good restaurant! F*** PEES AND POOPS!!

btw- you people are all nuts! Homeless/panhandlers are only being logical by hustling in d-bo. Look at all the fancy ass places that have been built there overnight! HA! If I ever go that route in life, I'm doin rounds in the f'ing park!

hi

so i didn't bother to read the posts in this thread but i did read the 99 gold street one.

first off....Peas and Pickles is a stupid, disgusting and depressing place, a glorified deli with horrific service and irresponsible prices. anyway moving on......i live in vinegar hill, and refuse to go to peas and pickles at night past 11 or so, not only are the panhandlers insane and annoying, when i walk back to my home, i get a little scared. this neighborhood is insane. so i get all my goods delivered from Peas. no problem, except they refuse to add ALL of the items i ordered. finally this neighborhood is totally unsafe and absurb, but i got a great deal and can't bear to move out.
i feel bad for all the people who are paying out the ass for a place in a neighborhood that exist's to loot people of their money, safety and decent ammenities such as a f***ing GROCERY STORE!!!!

Its OK. I'll buy it back off him next time I see him

This Ipod was sold to me 2 weeks ago. Couldn't have been yours then. Sorry Love.

He stole my Ipod Nano last week. Give it back.

The Green Hat guy sold me an Ipod Nano for $40.00. True story.

I think they all have myspace accounts...

The guy in the green cap is 'Black'. I dont know his whole story but he can be a little aggressive about needing, work, food, money. So far that's been the extent of it. He's been around (mostly in VH)for at least a year or two. I've seen him being arrested. For what I dont know. One day I walked out of my place and saw a friend of mine speaking to him. The conversation was basically him bragging about how he is wanted in 10 states for armed robbery (yeh right), and wont commit breaking and entering because it's beneath him. He didnt mention assault, grand theft auto or murder so I'm not sure where he stands on those. Needless to say dont encourage him by giving him money, buying his stolen goods(offered to me once) or otherwise...I definitely wouldnt offer him work let alone work...he can apply to the doe fund.

Solution - I have a a buddy who has made friends with the police in his neighborhood. Just like anyone else, your local patrolman report to someone, and they report to someone, etc.

The police department has a report that gets sent to higher ups when an issue is repeatedly brought to their attention (i.e. The Cracky Crew). You simply need to call 911/311 REPEATEDLY to report issues there.

As these calls flood in - some bruiser patrolman will get the nod from his Sgt/Captain and the problem will be no more. It will just take some dilligence on our part - a community should not be held under seige by a couple of people.

Does anyone think they have a blog??? Would love to hear their thoughs on us.

There is a new guy hanging around a lot on Front Street. He's young, always wears a green baseball cap, and his right arm is in a cast. He is a bit creepy, but so far he just asks for money. I just saw him riding his bike down Front Street very slowly checking out two guys who were standing out on the street talking.

I called 311 and the operator said she will send an officer over to look for him and speak to him if they can find him. She said they'll ask him what he's doing hanging around on this street, if only just to let him know that he's been noticed.

Beyond that, not sure what else we can do except pay attention and don't encourage him by giving him money.

I invited crackie to a loft party I threw at 42 Main. We were doing some smoke racing with the Big Bertha Bong and passed it around the house. Crackie did not take a hit or even looked tempted. To my surprise she is drug free. She is like the way she is because she has bulemia. Her stride is the way it is from a combination of scoliosis and fatigue. I have a brand new respect for her after this point. Why was she there at my party? I was looking for a quick lay. I cannot indulge anymore.

Love,
Jojee

Has anyone who is complaining simply tried calling 311?

Anyone?

Why doesn't someone try that and report back...

I think people should step up and do something rather than
vent on a blog about it. I went through an experience last year while living in another city. I lived in a cul de sac. two or three 2 story apt buildings. Well one day I come home to find out a few cardboard boxes
stacked together. Hmmm? A night or two later I realize that a few homeless have decided to create a little shanty town. Within a week
they are there living full time on the street practically right outside my door. I call the local homeless service/shelter number and they tell me
that they and the police are unable to do anything. Well that weekend
the crackies were out one night and you know what - I ran out of the house and dismantled their shelter. I took all the boxes apart. Tore the thing up. And then dumped the detritus in different dumpsters (so they would be able to just drag it out of the trash later). Hmmm much later that same night the crackie patrol returned and woke me up with their
screams of frustration. I dont relish what I did but I took action after trying the bureacratic route. None of the peas and pickles crowd have ever raised a hand to me. I think thats because as one commenter said above - I at least recognize that they are human beings albeit a bunch of jokers. When I see one of these guys on the street before they even utter a word you should ask them for some change. completely turns the tables on them. If the crackies are making your life miserable then do something about it. I dont think that just because you are paying for an apartment in dumbo you have the right to expect that the streets should be made completely safe for you. Make them safe for yourself. And ohhhhh the hypocrisy all the banter about crackies
well what about when some of the losers are doing a little recreational drugs with friends. thats ok right. I mean a coked up stockbroker is less annoying then a cracked out beggar! puhhhlease

Typically I'd be right up there with you (Old Timer) that the 'new Tribeca'-ites invading the neighborhood need to "toughen" up... However, the behavior of the panhandlers is so outright ridiculous and so many people in DUMBO (including other old timers) have done nothing but feed into it only to get burnt by it. So are you not going to take responsibility for that, or are you going to say that's a way you can keep these richies out of your 'hood?

By being "burnt" I mean - the other day I was record shopping in Halcyon and one of the guys - that I like to call the mayor of Dumbo - came in and just started hassling the guy behind the counter ( I forget his name) for money, food or whatnot. The halcyon guy was obviously annoyed and couldn't get the guy out of the shop, and he started hassling other customers in the store. However, when he came in, he addressed the guy like they were old pals. I've seen similar happen in ReBar/Coffee Box, and yea, it'd be fine if it was enough to say no. For example, my husband and I always just say no to mayor of Dumbo and his staff (the various people he schedules outside of P&P) - but invariably someone new comes onto the scene, like the Dave Chappelle lookalike who threw a rock at my husband when he said no.

I mean, yea sure - we all live in NYC and at the end of the day need to accept that it's not the safety level you're gonna get in suburbia, but I don't think it's too much to ask that people use common sense and not give money to people on the street. If there's no money being given, the mayor of Dumbo and all will find a new target market to enter. Trust me. I'm sure they'll conduct an off-site at their Hampton's summer home and come up with a new strategy.

almost enough for a soccer team..

I was thinking a calendar in time for 08. There's P&P's Smokey and Cracky, Wheelchair Guy, Cane Guy, Obese Women who always needs food money, Black, Wobbly Crazy Talker, the real Smokey and Cracky (the ones who light up their pipes right on the street and are often visibly f'd up) and Joe the limpy guy who hangs around Vinegar Hill. Hmmm...two short. what to do?

Also whoever suggested smokey and cracky are dealers is way off base...c'mon dealers? Hanging out in front of P&P all day begging for money is not dealing. Maybe the cops are on the take but I'd have a hard time believing they are peddling out in front of P&P. What would make you think this? did you buy some? was it good?

can someone get a picture of smokey and crackey and post it to this site? i'd love to see their gorgeous mugs front and center on dumbonyc.com. a discrete camera phone shot, perhaps?

The fact of the matter is I think we'd all prefer to not have to pass panhandlers every day. Just like some of us prefer not to have to say "good morning" when we get on the elevator with others or "hello" to our doorman when we enter the building everyday. You don't want to be bothered with such 'nuisances'. So instead of doing the polite thing, you ignore them... act as if they are not there. This is the type of person who may get verbally abused by the panhandlers. I've never given them a cent, but I politely say "no" or "sorry"... it may be annoying to acknowledge them everyday, but it only takes a second. I won't give them money, but I will have the decency to acknowledge them as people and not someone beneath me... til this day they've never insulted me. If you walk around with your nose in the air, they will continue to harass you just for kicks.

As for Anon's far fetched uninformed opinion about the panhandler's also being drug dealer's who are selling to the J Condo concierge... I'm speechless. Nice way to start a rumor.

Crackie and Smokie living under a Deli.
B.E.G.G.I.N.G
First comes drugs, then marraige.
Then comes a retarded baby in a shopping carraige.

The intellect in this blog has reached a new horizon.

I just walked past Smokey and Crackey arguing near the F train stop. Crackey was handing a roll of dollar bills to Smokey, probably just a fraction of the money they take off all the gullible wannabe-philanthropists outside P&P.

My friend has also seen Smokey in the Sovereign bank! He probably has a brokerage account and a financial advisor. When will you idiots stop giving them money!!

ahahahahahahha

oh man you people are so hilarious. Lets get rid of the crackies they
are so bad, evil. You know what lets get rid of the scumbag losers
who moved into the neighborhood and stripped dumbo of its
flavor. I wont even go to the neighborhood anymore. The idea that you
people will get toegther and start a boycott of peas and pickles hhahahahaha - never going to happen. Lame lame lame.
booohooo the streets are dangerous. Get a life this is f***ing brooklyn.
not conencticut you wimps. Ive never given the p and p beggards a cent. and they have never uttered a word to me. If they said something to my wife or kid Id beat the shit out of them clean and simple.
whine whine whine.

I want to thank suckit, Anon and everyone else who has posted items along similar lines. The crackheads outside P&P have got to go! I don't like feeling threatened (or worse, being accosted) when I walk with my baby on Front Street, the main thoroughfare of our tiny neighborhood. If people stop giving them money (note: it's not cool if you're "friends" with the crackies), they WILL find another place to get it, hopefully not in our neighborhood. I'm sure there is a bodega somewhere other than DUMBO where they can park their lazy asses.

There was a new person begging for money in Peas and Pickles tonight...who was going up to and touching people. I asked the guys who worked there if they could do anything and they just smiled and went back to checking me out- it was the first time I have actually been frightened since we moved here- and I will not be returning to P & P until something is done. Even more alarming were the two police officers in the store who did nothing!

ok, so i am "suck it", "fejfek", "wiufdhjdc" and whaveter other ridculous key strokes i have it when making these posts, and as many of you may know, i am the one who started this crusade to rid dumbo of the harassing, evil, nasty, junkie crackheads. today, i am a happy man. today, we finally get a front page posting addressing the issue, and it is clear (based on the number of posting supporting the position) that most of you out there agree that these...to use one of my fan-favorites...douchebags must go. it kills me every time i read a post from someone saying these two are "nice" or "funny" or "totally their bestest friend". to the people making such posts, come on...are you for real?. you could not be more offbase in terms of your perception of these two freaks. they are cracked-out drug users and dealers, they don't care about you (i hate to talk to you like a 4 yr old, but she really doesn't mean it when she sayd "god bless you") and they certainly don't write in their diary at the end of the day about how 'the nicest person gave them money today'. i dare you to walk past them even once and ignore them. then you will see their true colors. as others on this post have pointed out, they immediately become nasty and harassing. they have stalked and verbally assaulted my wife and infant daughter. they make horrible, offensive comments to me, her and anyone else that walks by and so gravely wrongs them by not supporting their crack addiction. they are horrible, disgusting and mean people who, as it has been suggeste don this post, could absolutely take some initiative and better their lives (note the incredible work of the doe foundation and the guys in the neighborhhod wearing the blue uniforms -- these are the people deserving of our respect, appreciation and admiration for trying to change their lives), so stop with the liberal crapola. wake up, people. today it is simple verbal harassment (which, by the way, is bad enough), tomorrow some cracked out junkie does something physical to my wife or baby. i know many of you are saying, 'but they're nice to me'. i challenge any of you doubters to ignore them once, maybe twice -- i promise you will then see what these two are really all about, and believe me, it ain't pretty.

it is obvious from thsi string of posts that a lot of people share my feelings. keep making a beef about this issue, boycott or talk to p&p, mention the harassment to the many police that now stroll our streets, talk to your neighbors, whatever...most importantly, keep posting to this site with complaints, updates, etc.

"whiners" - you don't sound like you live in the neigborhood. the situation is a little more complex than to just for everyone to hold hands and live in harmony.

simply saying to respect people isn't a solution. no one is disrespecting these panhandlers. i think the issue here is a serious concern about the neighborhood. many people are more than happy just to ignore these panhandlers, but if they consistently are aggressively approaching you, i don't see how the respect is not reciprocated. the as mentioned in a previous post, can lead to worse things. again it would be easy just to live an insular lifestyle and go on with everyday life, but i think the people who complain have a strong sense of community here in dumbo and want to make it a better place to live. i.e. "no crackheads on the street"

I have no problem helping others, and I donate my time and money to those who are less fortunate that I am. However, I have a problem helping those who don't care to help themselves. If panhandlers work hard and want to get out of their situation, I will do what I can to help. Otherwise, I'd rather not see them asking others for help. As dumbonyc stated somewhere else, our experience with panhandlers is a reflection of who you are. If you're a jerk, don't expect people to treat you with respect.

People who are complaining about the bums need to be respectful of others. Oh, of course you're "honest, hard working law abiding citizens", but the goal in life isn't to make money and live in expensive condos and be selfish. These are real people we're talking about. Some of you sound snooty rich and entitled. We need to respect people, whether or not they are crackheads or poor. If they harass you, ask them to stop. There is no sense of respect towards people. Just be polite and they will not bother you.

i like weldon... he is nice.

Weldon is watching me so he can hit me over the head and steal my wallet. I find that very reassuring. He really is the friendly neighborhood bum.

haha, how exactly is weldon watching out for me? that sorta freaks me out.

Weldon (Guy with the cane) is nice and watches out for you, but demands his cut. But he is a really interesting guy if you get to chatting with him.

At least get rid of the one with the wheel chair. Even though he's the most deserving from the three, he creeps me out and touches my dog. You don't need kung fu people to get rid of him. I've tipped many cows in my life, a parapalegic will be effortless.

Bababooyah

Had my bikes' back tire liberated couple weeks ago on Thursday night. That sucked but RAB was quick to fix for me with a spare they had. As well I personally am fed up with panhandlers constant vigil in front of Peas and Pickle. LOL GET A LIFE

Let's get those kung fu people to just kick their butts.

it's nice living in a neighborhood where people at least care enough to argue with one another.

Tell the P & P that you wont go back until they do something about the bums, believe me they will do something.

Go to the precinct meetings!

Never give money to the panhandlers. They will stop treating you like an ATM if you stop behaving like one.

DOT: The "panhandlers" you are referring to are actually drug dealers. And that is why when the concierge at J Condo is "fraternizing" with them, it is of concern. "Gee, I wonder why?" is sarcasm for, the concierge at J Condo is either buying, selling, or using. Were you born yesterday? Or maybe you live at J Condo and you get your drugs from your concierge.

And to Also Anon, re: "Dinkins-era" and "these people" : First, I'm black or, as I'm sure your guilt-ridden liberal conscience requires, African-American. Second, David Dinkins was the worst mayor, perhaps in NYC history, and certainly in my lifetime. Third, "these people" refers to criminals, specifically drug dealers, for whom I have zero tolerance, regardless of their skin color.

Yes, simply stop giving them money. They keep coming back because it is profitable.

And here's an idea; stop giving Peas and Pickles money until they decide to get involved. When they realize they are losing business, they will.

Of course, it's usually too much to expect people to sacrifice some convenience.

and umm... you CAN kick all the poor people out of dumbo. Last time I checked, you pretty much had.

giving these panhandlers money sets a bad precedent. although it might give you an altruistic feeling of helping a "nice" homeless person out, it is slowly worsening the standards of the neighborhood. this action will not only attract more panhandlers but can potentially lead to more crime (i.e. drugs, theft, or worse). there are perfectly good charities out there where you can be certain the money is being carefully placed. please stop giving these people money.

All of the Dumbo panhandlers have these two things in common:

1. They are able bodied and fit for work.
2. They are certainly not homeless. Witness the way they walk back every evening towards the Farragut houses.

Anyone who gives them money needs to realise that they are subsidizing a life of laziness, criminality and drug abuse.

Here's a test to prove it. Try to give them food. I saw a kind lady give one of them food recently, and the bum actually sold it to another passerby for one dollar!

"You know I always appreciate it. How are you darling, if you have any change I appreciate it. God bless you, have a good night." -Peas and Pickles security girl. I'm not threatened by the panhandlers but I had enough of that parrot repeating the same phrase over and over. She should mix things up like, "Baby baby baby give yo money!" Or "I'm so skinny I need cocaine for calories." Those two sitting outside Peas n Pickles are completely competent and fit for work. Even the guy that owns the forever broken bicycle that asks for 78 cents to repair it is completely able. From my year, living in DUMBO I have not spent one cent helping lazy asses.

Jan sits on the board of the Dumbo Improvement District to represent business owners.

angie...why from Jan? Just curious why his opinion or input matters. Isn't he just a gallery owner?

would be nice to hear from Jan or the DID on this matter...

Brooklyn Enthusiast - you don't feel threatened because you give them money. As soon as you stop, they will start to harass you. Crackey (the female one in front of P&P) is the worst.

My girlfriend was waiting in a taxi the other day outside our building. The bum affectionately known as 'lefty' came up to the car, poked his head in and asked if she had any FRIED CHICKEN. When she said no, he hurled a volley of abuse and trotted away.

Truthfully, does anyone really want to live in a neighborhood like that?

I definitely don't feel threatened by panhandlers in DUMBO, but they are very aggressive, more so than Manhattan, and especially in Vinegar Hill. I had a woman follow me for a block pleading for money and then when I said I had no cash, she said a credit card would work and I could go with her to purchase items. It's sad to see such desperation, but at the same time, the tactics make me uncomfortable. The panhandlers outside Peas & Pickles are nice, so people give them money (including myself), but perhaps this is just underscoring potential for them to get more from residents.

As to walking safety, I would agree. Common sense and street smart skills should always be applied.

"[...] a bit reminiscent of Dinkins-era New York."
"[...] fraternizing with these people."

Gee, Anon, I'm sure some of your best friends are black, right?

Too bad we can't just kick all of the poor people of color out of Dumbo, right?

I'm not sure I understand what's being implied about the concierge "fraternizing" with the pan handlers? Why do you "wonder why"?

For those who care, you can go to this link
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/precincts/pre...
for more info re: the 84th Pct. Calls to the Community Affairs division actually may prove fruitful. According to the recent Brooklyn Paper "Crime Blotter," a Dumbo resident was recently held up at gunpoint on Front and Dock. Even though the thieves were caught and the gun turned out to be fake, violent street crime seems to be a growing concern. And the panhandlers and drug dealers in front of Peas is pretty insufferable, a bit reminiscent of Dinkins-era New York. And, not for nothing, but I'm also a bit tired of seeing certain concierges (a particular J Condo concierge comes to mind) fraternizing with these people. Gee, I wonder why?