Dumbo NYC

Notes from the DUMBO, Brooklyn NY neighborhood


Dock Street Dumbo Building Opposed by Yassky

August 6th, 2007


 All renderings of Dock St. Dumbo from Two Trees

Since Two Trees Management released their plans for the 18 story building in June, city politicians were quiet about their stance until they saw the plans. On Sunday, the NY Times published a letter from Council member David Yassky, who does not think the building is appropriate on a historic block so close to the Brooklyn Bridge.

“Families should not need to accept an inappropriate building for the soon-to-be-landmarked Dumbo neighborhood in order to get a much-needed middle school. I have spoken with the Department of Education, and am forming a task force comprising neighborhood residents and P.S. 8 parents to evaluate the qualities the middle school should have. Based on that evaluation, we will consider available locations and create an appropriate middle school for the area.”

I’ve also received an email from a Dumbo resident who received this reply from Mr. Yassky:

—–Original Message—–
From: dock07@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007
Subject: Re: Fw: The proposed Dock Street Monstrosity

Dear Mr. [anonymous],

Thank you for writing me about your opinion of the proposed building, now known as Dock Street DUMBO. As you may know, this is not the first proposal for this location. In 2004, Two Trees proposed a 17 story building at 38 Water St. which I opposed. My position was and remains that a building at a location this close to the Brooklyn Bridge should be no taller than 8 stories or 80 feet.

The block where Two Trees is proposing to build Dock Street DUMBO, – which now includes the site of the former Nova Clutch Building on Front Street, as well as the 38 Water Street location – is of particular historical significance. The Tobacco Warehouse and Civil War Warehouses are both located on the block along with other historic buildings that are part of the calendared DUMBO landmark area. It is my opinion, that the proposed building would be totally out of character with these historical resources, many of them excellently restored by Two Trees. In addition, I find a development this tall to be unacceptable at this location, as it would block views of and from the historic Brooklyn Bridge.

The developers have included space that they would lease to the Board of Education for a middle school. There is a dire need for a middle school in the DUMBO/ Brooklyn Heights area to serve the graduates of PS 8. Children from these neighborhoods now go to variety of public and private schools throughout the borough and even in Manhattan. I have been in discussions about this issue with the Department of Education for some time. In the early fall I will be sending information about a joint task force composed of DUMBO/Brooklyn Heights residents and PS 8 parents to begin a middle school search process. I feel strongly that this location is not the only solution — a school should not be used as a reason for an inappropriate building.

As many of you are aware one of the prime aims of my work as a city council member has been to create affordable housing. Again I do not feel that this incentive should be used to build an inappropriate building.

I feel this makes my position on this issue clear, but if you have further questions please do not hesitate to write me at dock07@gmail.com or contact my district office at (718) 875-5200.

Sincerely,

David Yassky

Looks like Mr. Yassky set up a gmail account to receive emails regarding the Dock Street Building. Finally, a website has been created by a group of citizens opposed to the development, savedumbo.org, which include some renderings of the building by Two Trees (below). While I don’t think a building on the lot is a bad thing, many residents are opposed to the size and having a middle school in the same structure as a residential rental building.

{More Middle Schools in Brooklyn, 05Aug07, NY Times, Letters to the Editor}
Previously:
{NY Times: Middle School Needed in the Area, 30Jul07}
{Dock Street Dumbo Plans Revealed, 27Jun207, }
{Two Trees Seeking Approval for 15-20 Story Building Abutting Brooklyn Bridge, 18Apr07}

Filed in Dock Street, Dumbo Residents, Real Estate at 1:57 pm
Comments
  • dumbostreets
    I find it comical how all of Two Trees renderings are from foreshortened angles in order to obscure the wall-like nature of the building ( there is no walkway view directly at the length of the building ). They also favor vantages between the proposed tower and bridge which obscure the tower's proximity to the bridge.

    In short, the renderings are so careful composed that it is clear Two Trees doesn't even believe their own claims about how the structure does not impose upon the bridge. It is such an obvious dance around certain vantages that it is laughable.
  • 70 washington Resident/PS8 Par
    We need a middle school yesterday!

    Two Tree's proposal is the best proposal I heard from anyone. I don't believe it is a defensible position that a child's education should be traded for maintaining some affluent person's view and I am one of those "affluent" folks.

    If someone wants to propose a REAL alternative that produces a good middle school in the neighborhood by Sept 2010 then lets hear it!

    It is laughable that Yassky even includes the private schools in the area as viable options. No one can get into them as they are beyond full and they are not accepting new applicants in most cases unless you are the sibling of an existing student or the child of an alumni. If you do get accepted you are looking at $24-27K a year in fees from Kindergarten on up. Ridiculous!!!! College is cheaper.

    Also, holding up a broken education system as adequate where kids have to travel all over the city in order to get a decent education is misguided. As our elected official he should be more focused on getting every neighborhood a decent Elementary, Middle and High Schools by whatever means possible, ASAP. Ones with similar standards and facilities that kids don't have to leave their neighborhood to attend. Call me crazy but this what I grew up with and its why people move to the burbs. Fixing our crappy education system should be priority #1 over all other issues in the city and would guarantee a politician a job for life if he was the leader who pulled it off. If we don't educate our citizens to the highest standard possible then how can we expect our city to reach its full potential?

    As for Yassky's assertion that having a new building beside a historical one is a bad idea then he must walk around NYC with his eyes closed. If his logic was adhered to, most of New York would not have been built. The location is outside the proposed Historical District and therefore should not be under the constraints of the historical district, if/when it gets approved.

    He seems to be supporting the sentiments of folks with views, (primarily in 70 washington and 30 Main), that their precious views will be damaged or lost. Well they were naive to think that no development would at some point in time effect their view.

    Yassky wake up or you will find yourself outta of a job next election.

    Forming some task force that has no power and is designed to support your opinion is no better than what Two Trees is being accused of doing.

    Yours
    70 Washington Resident and PS8 Parent
  • dumbostreets
    The above was obviously written by someone at Two Trees. They have been agressively posting to blogs in favor of the project posing as residents.

    A public school does not belong in a 17 floor luxury rental building period. Public institutions should not be leveraged in this manner.

    It is cynical for Two Trees to use the school as a wedge issue to attempt to divide the community concerning a building that has already been unamiously rejected! There are so many problems with this proposal I don't know where to start.

    I am a REAL father and long time resident of Brooklyn, a product of the public education system myself. Yassky is my new hero!

    It is very simple: build a REAL school. It is not enough for Walentas to own 80% of Dumbo, he wants to appropriate public institutions too.

    Go Yassky!
  • Peter Sunwoo
    Hmm... Rentals in a 17 floor building with classes below. What a ground breaking idea for real estate! I really like the views from Stuyvesant HS. Hopefully someone can rent me a space up there.
  • dnicebk
    amen! go yassky!!!!!! i smell victory. while there is a need for many things in this neighborhood, including a school, 17 floors of a building that will ruin a bridge and a neighborhood just won't cut it. glad to think yassky thinks so too...and smart development is what changes this city for the better, not development for development's sake..there have been many historical, beautiful, and significant institutions etc. of the past that have made way for not so wonderful things. how can you jeapordize the brooklyn bridge, and the tobacco warehouse, empire stores...civil war icons, and the real history for why this term dumbo is significant, and why the waterfront is sacred for all new yorkers, and it's past and future development. time to think of choice number two of where this school can be raised, or better yet, can't there be a conversion, look how many warehouses are left...wouldn't a nice middle school somewhere towards vinegar hill make more sense?
  • real dumbo resident
    Yassky's position supports the majority of the residents in Dumbo. The community does not want this building. It is inappropriate, and everyone knows it. It is great to see the public officials are beginning to acknowledge this and voice their opposition in the press.

    The only people in Dumbo that want this building work for Two Trees, and they are so desperate to alter and sway the climate of this argument in their favor that they have to pose as 70 Washington owners and PS 8 parents and post to blogs such as this. It is so obvious, and we see right through your bogus attempts. Keep trying though.
  • DumboDweller
    I agree that the lone post supporting the school was probably posted by someone with ties to Two Tree. Dumbo does need a School. It does not need to be 17,18,19+ stories high.
  • dumbostreets
    Since JWs have stalled on 85 Jay Street, it would be great if a deal could be worked our there. Probably just wishful thinking, but considering the city wanted to put an olympic tennis on the same spot, couldn't they figure out how to put a nice 4 story school on a portion of it ?
  • Rascal
    Apparently there WAS a school in the now empty lot off of Jay street, a beautiful, 19th Century building that was listed on The National Register of Historic Places. It, along with dozens of other similarly important buildings (including, I believe, a church) were demolished by the Witnesses in 1992.
  • DOT
    To say that a majority of the residents in Dumbo are against this project is as narrow minded as saying that only residents with jeopardized views are against the project. I am a dumbo resident and before anyone starts accusing me of being a two tree's employee... I'm also regular poster on this site... and I am NOT against the project. I moved to the neighborhood with the understanding that it's changing. I appreciate the uniqueness of Dumbo, hence why I moved here, but I'm not fighting a Duane Reade from entering the neighborhood and certainly not a school. Now, it's very unfortunate that some views will be lost as a result of the building going up, but that's life in NYC.
  • dumbostreets
    Dot, you begin by saying it is narrow minded to assume that "only residents with jeopardized views are against the project" and then you conclude with that very implication. ???

    Whether you work for Two Trees or not, you are certainly framing the issue in their terms. We don't need this building to have a school!

    It is amazing how boosters always come back the condo owners acting in their self interest while overlooking the billionaire developer who stands to gain huge sums for this alleged educational "philanthropy."

    There are many, many things wrong with this project and the views are just one aspect!
  • CG
    I'm curious why people think this would be any different than the J or the Beacon? Those are even closer to the Manhattan Bridge than this proposed building would be to the Brooklyn Bridge, and they are just as "out of character" with the neighborhood.

    I can't say I like the idea of this building, but the uproar seems a little misplaced.

    And, like DOT, I have posted here before and am not a Two Trees employee.
  • Fulton Ferry Res
    DOT,

    You say that you appreciate the uniqueness of DUMBO, but wouldn't object to a Duane Reade?? Is that some new kind of oxymoron? Even Walentas does not allow chains in his buildings (his only good quality). Please, keep the UES (and almost every other Manhattan neighborhood)where it is. We don't need that here.
  • sherry brown
    The building, the density and the complexity of a middle school under the Bridge, 400 apartments, retail and who knows whatever, is inappropraite in a historic district with few amenities and services. Dock and Water Streets are not able to handle 1200+ people every day. Front Street congestion will back up onto the Brooklyn Bridge and BQE. At what price and cost does the community pay to allow the a developer to have 400 rental apartments?

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  • DOT
    dumbostreets... perhaps I wasn't clear. Ultimately, yes... this IS all about the views. Would you be opposed to this project if it were to be only 5 stories? Don't think so. However, you have those who oppose the project because they have a self interest in protecting their views and then you have those who are concerned with protecting the vistas for all. Some would argue that everyone griping here have selfish motivation in protecting their investment. My point was that I am not taking that close minded stance. I believe some people actually care beyond their down payment. However, loosing some vantage points of the bridge from dumbo or vice versa isn't enough to make me oppose a development that could have come without a school or affordable housing.

    Yes, two tree's have their interest in mind with these "added benefits" but they could just build a shorter building that brings nothing but more million dollar housing right now. Unless you've been living in dumbo for 20 years, the only reason you're probably here is because of the "added benefits" two tree's has given artists and businesses through the years to foster the growth of the neighborhood. It's always about the bottom line for developer's, but that doesn't mean we can't benefit either... even if for only a small time... because things change.
  • DOT
    Fulton Ferry Res... what's so UES about an affordable pharmacy? Would you prefer that it be called Reade Duane? I'm glad that the neighborhood will finally have a place to purchase cough medicine and deodorant, but do we really need a high end apothecary for that? An apothecary will certainly blend in well with the neighborhood (by all means bring it on), but it won't be practical for everyone. If you prefer to spend $7 for a box of tylenol, as opposed to $5, perhaps you belong on the UES, not in Brooklyn. Starbucks didn't "ruin" the neighborhood and I highly doubt ONE chain pharmacy would either. We're not talking McDonald's here, we're talking prescriptions.
  • adam
    I'm not interested in jumping into this debate right now other than to address this:

    "Unless you’ve been living in dumbo for 20 years, the only reason you’re probably here is because of the “added benefits” two tree’s has given artists and businesses through the years to foster the growth of the neighborhood."

    Dumbo sans Two Trees sounds just fine to me; problem is, twenty years ago I was in grade school. I would've really liked Soho in the early 80s too but some things aren't possible. I give TT their dues but to me at least, they don't make Dumbo.
  • dumbostreets
    DOT, I appreciate what Two Trees has done but that does not give them cart blanche in Dumbo. While Mr. Walentas deserves his due, the families that actually generated the return are now part of the equation.

    Dumbo is no longer a bunch of rented warehouse space where Two Trees can do whatever it pleases. This controversy is just the beginning of the problems of locating a public school in a luxury rental. There is no reason why the Dumbo community cannot form its own school, entirely on its own terms, like any other community. Does everything, even our public schools, need to route through Mr. Walentas? This issue is at least as important as the views.

    Quickly, how is the Dock Street Project worse than J Condo or Beacon Tower in terms of relative proximity to a bridge ...?
    It is a lot closer. The Brooklyn Bridge is more iconic. The Brooklyn Bridge walkway is one of the most popular and historic observation decks in the city. It is how a growing amount of foot traffic gets to Dumbo. We should bend over backwards to improve the experience, not block it. We can simply put the school elsewhere without degrading the bridge. The view from the bridge is a gigantic asset to the neighborhood (commercially and historically). But these are just a few of the problems...
  • got schooled
    I admit it. I bought in 70 Wash. I'm a sucker. Walentas sold the view. I bought the view. I cannot believe that at the time, the guy did not know that he planned to block the view. He didn't say anything; he just stuck out his hand and took my money for the view. That's a material omission. Put another way --the guy lied. He lied to a bunch of people --in my building and others -- the same way. That makes him a liar. Yeah, it makes me a sucker, too. I know it's NY. I know it's business. And if he get's away with it, good for him. Go America. Leaving aside legal analysis regarding whether he had to disclose his plans when I bought, he's still a liar and a jackass.
  • margery
    Isn't this blog run by Walentas? That's what I heard. At any rate. yes I agree that a public school does not belong in a 17 story luxury condo bulilding. It's a way of co-opting and exploiting a public need by a private entity that is interestied in making a private (and hefty) profit. As a long term renter in the Walentas Empire (renting studio space) I've noticed the following: they're always fair and straightforward in their "way" and in the terms they present things. But they don't mention things like- "we will be attempting to put up a giant building right in front of this one you're buying into" -Or, in my experience- we'll give you less than "market rate" but NOT tell you about how we plan to do massive construction work on the building for the next 4 years of your lease that will make being there loud and hellish. Trust me, elevator installations, concrete trucks, jackhammers- just try to make art or do graphic design or whatever- under those circumstances. Technically, yes- Walentas can do what he does. but it's not quite honest. So people with children who need a middle school should work with our public elected officials to solve this problem and NOT Two Trees, which has it's own interests, which aren't so civic in nature.
  • Margery: nope, this blog is not run by Walentas. Of course Walentas comes up quite often when posting about Dumbo, but I am not affiliated with Two Trees or any real estate related companies. I went to medical school and work in the pharmaceutical industry as a biometric systems engineer. Just a one person operation writing in between my commutes around the country, with help from neighbors who email me with great tips and info. Please email me if you have any stories you'd like to submit or want me to cover. Thanks!
    -hideyoshi
  • margery
    dumbonyc: oh great- I didn't know whose operation this was- congrats on a great and comprehensive blog- don't know how you can find time~but good work! I'll let you know if there's anything up in my side of the neighborhood~
  • Bob Seelos
    When I purchased my condo at 70 Washington Street along with a rooftop deck space, i was assured that the parking lot on the brooklyn Bridge side of the building was zoned for a relatively short buuilding. Now that all the units have been sold at 70 washington Stret, Two Trees wants to block all the views that we paid extra for. Sounds like a good lawsuit is brewing and I will be happy to be in it. Bob Seelos
  • ?
    check your offering plan first, bob. there may be a 'known risks' section that mentions the loss of your view.

    seems like the sales agents can tell you just about anything they think you're going to want to hear, true or not, to get you to sign the contract. they may say that there will be a rainbow outside your window every day for the life of the apartment, but in the 'known risks' chapter of your offering plan there will probably be a 'the rainbows may only last for x years, etc.' clause.
  • Too Much Hype
    Bob,

    I believe the lot actually is zoned for a shorther building. The problem is that Walentas' plans are for constructing his building across the street from the parking lot you reference. That does not help your law suit.
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