Dumbo NYC

Notes from the DUMBO, Brooklyn NY neighborhood


NY Times: Middle School Needed in the Area

July 30th, 2007

Yesterday’s NY Times article by Gregory Beyer notes that “For a long time, Public School 8 in Brooklyn Heights was so troubled, it served as a sort of benchmark for local parents: If your child was old enough to attend, it was probably time to move out of the neighborhood.” But in 2003, with a new principal and involved parents, the quality of PS8 have improved and credited with keeping Brooklyn Heights, Dumbo, and Fulton Ferry area families in the neighborhood. Now that the grade school kids are getting old enough for middle school, parents are forced to think about where to send their kids next:

The school district includes middle and junior high schools in Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Park Slope, Vinegar Hill, Prospect Heights and Bedford-Stuyvesant. According to Margie Feinberg, a spokeswoman for the city’s Department of Education, the district’s middle schools have more seats than students.

But many Brooklyn Heights residents find these options insufficient. They think the best way to capitalize on the success of P.S. 8 is to keep its graduates together in a new school of their own, preferably in their neighborhood….

To address the issue, Two Trees Management, a Dumbo development firm, submitted a proposal for a middle school serving about 300 students. The school would share a building on Dock Street — not yet built — with stores and housing. Jed Walentas, an owner of Two Trees, said his company insists on including a school component in the building. The Department of Education is examining that proposal.

According to the article, there are seats available in neighboring areas. So are those middle schools not adequate? Are they too far? Any parents care to comment about private school options in the Dumbo area?

{Wanted: A School of Their Own, 29July2007, NY Times}

Filed in Dumbo Residents at 10:08 am
Comments
  • Clueless
    There's a strong possibility that I'll be adopting my brother's three children next year (7, 13, & 16yo) and I have NO IDEA where to send them to school. I have no children of my own and am totally unprepared, but the situation is an emergency and I'm rising to the call of duty.

    Sooo, now I have to figure out how to do everything and obviously getting them into school is high priority. I'm sure a lot of kids in this area go to private school, but that is out of my budget. Are there any public schools close by that are good?
  • not fooled
    **Councilman David Yassky wrote a letter to the Times regarding the Dock Street project, published today in the City section. The text follows.

    Brooklyn Heights, as well as the adjacent neighborhoods of Dumbo and Vinegar Hill, would benefit from a middle school. Middle-class families leave these communities because of what they feel are unacceptable options: expensive private schools, or distant public schools.

    You mention the proposed Two Trees building in Dumbo that would include a middle school. But you don’t mention that the building is opposed by the Brooklyn Heights Association, Dumbo Neighborhood Association and Fulton Ferry Landing Association because it includes an 18-story tower, not appropriate on a historic block so close to the Brooklyn Bridge. Families should not need to accept an inappropriate building for the soon-to-be-landmarked Dumbo neighborhood in order to get a much-needed middle school.

    I have spoken with the Department of Education, and am forming a task force comprising neighborhood residents and P.S. 8 parents to evaluate the qualities the middle school should have. Based on that evaluation, we will consider available locations and create an appropriate middle school for the area.

    David Yassky
    Brooklyn Heights
  • Holt
    Thanks, jps, for posting the link. Maybe dumbonyc should post it separately so no one misses it. Not to mention Jed's take on the 70 Washington residents. "In keeping with the historic aesthetic," my ass. It is a big -- no, HUGE -- square building, totally lacking character and dwarfing everything around it. And it is FUGLY.
  • jps
  • jps
    hey folks:
    Here are the official drawings of the Dock Street building monstrosity.
  • dumbostreets
    Isn't it just weird to stick a public school in a 15 story luxury rental building?

    If the area needs a middle school give the kids a proper building! There is city property all around Dumbo. There is something so Edison Schoolish about this thing.
  • ?
    I can't imagine why these young people from the housing project would act out towards the new neighborhood. Oh wait, you say this has been a regular staple of summer life in DUMBO for at least 10 years? I never saw that in the offering plan. Jeez, the DUMBO maps I saw don't even include these projects I keep hearing about. Exactly where are they?
  • not fooled
    Sweeney: As I am involved in the community association discussions, I can assure you that there will be a statement on our positions in the near future.

    Investment protection: Get your facts straight. The 2004 proposed building on this site was pulled by Two Trees because the City council balked at putting a 178' tall building next to the bridge. And those who fought that battle did not do so for their apartment views. 70 Washington and 57 Front were not residential at that time, and the Beacon and J Condo weren't built yet. The opposition then, as it remains today, is the sheer density of the proposed building, and the views of and from the Bridge, including from the walkway and from the street and from across the river.
  • Neil
    What's unclear to me is this: In what substantial sense is the Walentas proposal supportive of a school? Does it provide a space at market rent and nothing else? A subsidized or rent-free space? Funding to get the school off the ground?
    The key, it seems to me, is to avoid confusing the need for a neighborhood middle school with this particular Walentas plan. Of course, if we're exploring potential spaces for a school we'll probably consider Walentas-owned space, we shouldn't conclude that the Dock Street proposal is the only option.

    Also, further to Rascal's comment, we should collectively consider what more we residents might demand in exchange for (possible) support for this proposal; negotiation is a two-way street. I'd first like to know exactly what "a school" means in this context of the Dock Street plan.
  • Rascal
    I don't know what kind of idealized, perfectly-principled world you people think we're living in, but I'm here to tell you it doesn't exist. Economic progress is fueled by self-interest, and the best we can hope for is the kind of quid-pro-quo that's being offered here. So it takes a condo development to motivate the creation of a school. So what? Better to have the school than not, fercryinoutloud; there's plenty of offensive condo development going on with no tradeoffs whatsoever. It's no trick to see how anything involving money could be more principled. The trick is to get something done that offers more to the community than usual.
  • Investment protection
    No one takes any Walentas protests seriously, and they shouldn't. They are all pushed ahead by people who value their apartment's view more than a school.
  • sweeney
    'not fooled' is on the money. Where is the opposition to this project? I know it's summer and everything moves slowly, but the Two Trees p.r. machine is going full force.
    Would DNA, BHA, and FFA please wake up. The community is waiting for these groups to take the lead in this battle with the greedy scum that calls itself Walentas.
  • Vinegar Hill res.
    DOT,

    Did you report this incident to the police? If not, would you do so? And would everyone report things like this to the police so our neighborhood and the beautiful waterfront parks are properly patrolled?

    Thank you.
  • DOT
    I've noticed the kids from the projects in the park lately as well. The park is to be enjoyed by everyone no matter where they come from, however, these kids have been out of line. Running around causing ruckus. Last night, I watched a bunch of them run towards a mother walking her young child trying to intimidate her... screaming, cursing, and hitting sign posts. No one wants that influence near their children or in their schools. I think integrated schools are necessary, but the harsh reality is that integrating with bad apples is not desired no matter what the race.
  • not fooled
    First off, Jed is David's son, not brother.
    You are correct, though, in your cynical view of Two Trees motives. As has been written elsewhere on another blog, TT was approached by representatives of a school in the recent past, who were told that TT had absolutely zero interest in having any kind of school in their properties.
    The only reasons that a school is being dangled in the faces of the new families in DUMBO is a) it eliminates some of the opposition to the 180' building next to the Brooklyn Bridge and b) it allows them to build a taller building by applying for a variance for 31,976 sq ft of the 45,833 sq ft school not to be counted as part of the permitted floor area calculation.
  • Sounds fishy to me
    I wonder if the Walentas had to grease some palms to get that story printed. It is all to fishy that this story gets printed when this "fight" is about to go down.

    I know nothing about the "thugs" from the project invading the parks at night and causing mayhem.

    BUT really that's what this thing is about: promising 300 seats to some BH mommies in exchange for Walentas making some serious bank on the rentals units.

    If this thing gets built will some of the kids in the projects be attending? I can see how this "public" school can turn into some sort of de facto private school for the well connected in the area.
  • Vinegar Hill res.
    Mencken, do you have kids? I would bet that you don't. If you did, I doubt you wouldn't be willing to subject them to a school with weak infrastructure, bad averages and crime for the sake of your quiet neighborhood. I don't think anyone in the city expects their neighborhood to be treated as a gated community, that is a ridiculous and hateful arguement that gets thrown around on this blog all the time. The public schools need to get better all around for everyone, or else those who can afford it will continue to pay to shield their kids in private school and those who can't will just have to hope for the best or move.

    BH and Dumbo are thriving neighborhoods and they deserve their own good middle school. We shouldn't have to travel to other neighborhoods to educate our children in the public school system! But I do have reservations about the fact that our future school is coming to us via the Walentas Bros. bundled with their newest residential developement... seems too much like a cynical bargaining chip rather than a solid plan.
  • beenhere4awhile
    I don't have any kids but if I did I would never send them to school with a bunch of scumbags, no matter what their color or ethnicity.

    Seriously, is anyone ENJOYING the thugs from the nearby projects invading the park at night and breaking glass, damaging art, etc? I could care less what color they ARE but I do care about what they DO. Why would any decent person or their kids, whatever their race, want to associate with trash?
  • KP
    Mencken, that is why Walentas is smart in marketing his new project to include a middle school. He knows that's needed in the area.
  • Mencken
    In the Times article, Melissa Milgrom, a Heights mother, says, “We’re not just dealing with education but socialization.” This is just racist code for, "I don't want my precious little girl going to school with a bunch of black animals." It's become obvious that the people who are shaping Dumbo (and the Heights, for that matter) are really a fearful lot who want to live in a gated community. So long as they have the political clout (and currently, they seemingly do) they will get their way. The school will be built, and as the quiet, still character of the neighborhood evaporates even more, many who moved to Dumbo for that unique quality, will leave. The Melissa Milgroms of the world SHOULD move to Montclair. Or any other gated community with a golf course nearby. They wouldn't be missed. And neither would their shrieking brood of ill-mannered, nanny-raised rugrats.
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