Dumbo NYC

Anyone know how the demolition of the sidewalk in front of Halcyon figures into the plan? Maybe just utility work coinciding with the triangle project?

Anyway, I can hardly wait for this to be done.

Hi Adam,

Sidewalk reconstruction is a parallel improvement by the Gutmans, separate from our work with the DOT under the Mayor's "PlaNYC" initiative to transform and activate the Pearl Street Triangle as a pedestrian plaza.

Neat stuff, providing it's done well, of course. They seem to be on track so far. For those who like steam shovels and big trucks, it is quite the scene.

Jan

GREAT !!! NOW THUGS WILL HAVE A PLACE TO SIT
AND WAIT FOR THEIR PREY.

Hi Peter,

Yes; vagrancy and crime are primary concerns here. Thugs won't linger if we light and police the area adequately, however.

Jan

Hi Jan (of JLA?), thanks for the information!

Peter, thugs aren't usually fond of open spaces. Even less those that are well-lit and facing vibrant storefronts.

Yep; that's me. Agree re. clean and well-lit-ness discouraging ill behavior. Several steps to go (additional lighting not in the DOT plan), but we appear to be moving things in that direction. Work, work, work.

On the same note, isn't there something that can be done about the groups/thugs that hang around Peas and pickles all the time?

311 complaint coundn't hurt.

Is there a lot of crime in DUMBO? Additional lighting would definitely make sense. When is the triangle set to be completed? thanks.

Girl1 - I agree. There's that annoying woman who stands outside Peas and Pickles begging and saying 'have a lovely day'. Then there's the guy who was there last night aggressively selling small rubber toys. Dumbo has a more visible and intrusive homeless problem than any other NY neighborhood. Can we ask the police to move them?

and what about that severely overweight bum sitting next to the F train subway entrance all day long

Heavens!

A benign woman asking for your spare change as you leave Peas and Pickles? You would think that the acquisitive newcomers might find a way to spare it, but perhaps generosity and kindness is thrown by the wayside on the solipsistic road to becoming a millionaire.

The "intrusive" homeless problem is far from that. I have been in Dumbo for a long time and never felt a threat, or felt pressured by any of the less-fortunate pan handlers that occasionally ask me for spare change. I suppose when one is desperately concentrating on saving up for the next bugaboo upgrade things are much different, but it would be a breath of fresh air if some on this site could find a way to see past the tips of their two-hundred-dollar shoes.

Pressuring those less fortunate -- or those who don't look or dress like oneself -- to leave will make this yet another lily-white enclave with no personality like the upper-east side.

Shame on you. Shame.

I'd love it if DUMBO turned into the UES. maybe we can give the bums a one-way ticket to Jersey

twc will you marry me?

Oo; steamy

Anonymous, we're working to get things settled into the Pearl Street Triangle by the first week of July. Stay tuned, and dew swing thru.

More lighting there -- and in general -- is a medium-term project that requires more funding than we have the budget for as a relatively small Improvement District, so we need to lobby for funding from the City and the DOT.

The Executive Director we hired for the DID out of the Department of Small Business Services last year, Tucker Reed, does this well, as does Billie Vitiello, whom Tucker brought on board from the Department of Sanitation.

Both are very nice, energetic, and interested in helping out, as is our new Communications and Development Manager, Jane Kojima, so don't hesitate to toss your two cents into the DID's decision-making process whenever you get the chance. Every little bit helps.

As for bums and hustlers on the street, alas; in my opinion, hardly benign, but also operating in a grey area of civil law.

I think folks work quite hard enough for their money, and don't want to have to navigate hustlers on their way to get their groceries and stuff.

As for what to do, agree re. the 311 call.

The other day, when the lady outside Peas & Pickles was pestering me for a more personal connection, I asked a passing police person whether there was anything we could do to limit the nuisance and degradation of our quality of life.

The officer told me that under civil law, panhandlers are not committing a crime by talking to you. Technically, they're just saying hello, and there's no law against that, even if it may be accompanied by an inappropriate request.

There are specific guidelines, too -- like they can't be holding anything out, like a cup or a hat. But I'm not sure of the full extent of the thing.

Anyway, the police can shuffle them along temporarily as public nuisances, but they can't cart them away and book them. The officers instructed me that the best one can do in this situation is just ignore them.

Until the civil law is clearer and we can find a civil means of addressing the issue, this and the 311 calls will just have to do.

Jan - thanks for the great summary!

Publius - these bums are anything but benign. Some of them are actually very aggressive. In addition, the owners of Peas and Pickles are losing business on account of this nuisance. The neighborhood can retain its character without being overrun by these hoodlums.

So let me get this straight - you buy a condo a few blocks away from the projects and then you're shocked and appalled by the "visible and intrusive homeless problem"?

pj & publius - agreed!

what is all this stink from the newbies?

these are the same folks who claim to want to preserve the look & feel of dumbo along with the artist community.

ridiculous. dumbo doesn't look or feel like it did even 3 years ago. and the artists? forcibly running for cover from the folks who want a new UES in brooklyn.

frankly. i liked it better when there were hookers on john street and the only people in nice cars had gotten lost on the way to the river cafe.

all you new monieds need a history lesson and a reality check.

Oh Kelster, you have made me the happiest girl in the world. I do!!!

HOW DARE U PEOPLE!!!!!!!! first of all there are not thugs in dumbo especially since u hipster yuppys came over an over ran the place so if there are any thugs over there understand they are more establishd then you.... plus what is a homeless persons problem when you guys are goin into peas an pickles an ordering about 20$ worth of lunch per person .. the place once calld dumbo has changed in so many ways an it only procedes to get nicer but the truth is the reason why dumbo is how it is today is because it was the backbone to brooklyns underground scene where u could find a rave going on at least twice a week u could go over there an have a speak with the homeless people near the bridge an give them some food or a blanket ,,,,,,,,,,, YOU ALL NEED TO KNOW WHERE DUMBO CAME FROM STARTED AN HOW IT IS TODAY,, THAT IS WHY THIS SITE IS MADE ISNT IT TO INFORM SO DO SOME RESERCH AND NO UR FACTSSSS

Plasma - do homeless people go to raves? Do they set up art galleries or studios? No. They are simply a nuisance. Don't confuse them with the real pioneers of DUMBO - the artists, the members of the underground scene who have contributed so much. Shifting the homeless people will not push these valued members of society out, it will just make life more pleasant for all of us!

Homeless people need SERVICES, not to degrade themselves by begging for spare change. (This is assuming that people who are begging are actually homeless, not always the case). If you call 311, you can be connected to the city's homeless outreach office. They can send someone to offer the person services. I call all the time, unfortunately in Brooklyn they don't have someone to dispatch after 9pm. And unfortunately, many people don't want to accept the services offered. I don't want to see homeless people chased off to another neighborhood, nor do I want to contribute to the problem by giving people change (although I do give food when I have some with me). I'd like to see this City deliver the necessary and appropriate services, including mental health services, to those who need them. NO ONE should live on the streets or have to survive by begging in the streets. This is one of the great failures of our City.

I agree with anon. I have no problem buying food for someone who needs help or a drink for the guy in the wheelchair but the same few people constantly begging for change isn't good for DUMBO. I wonder if the Doe Fund members find it insulting when they are cleaning a sidewalk while across the street a homeless person is begging for change. I find it hard to believe that anyone is out of line for trying to cut down on the panhandlers.

The Dumbo bums (how long before other people start calling it Bumbo??) are so forward and aggressive that I imagine they make quite good money. I doubt very much that they are all homeless, as this income is completely tax-free! One of them was even using a mobile phone the other day!

Great! I'm going to start calling it Bumbo today.

--

The "bums" are people the same as anyone else and deserving of at least the most basic level of respect. You don't like their actions? Ignore them. Or try 311 if you think that'll help. If they are breaking a law, involve the police.

How do you deal with millionaires who do things you disagree with?

They're a "nuisance?" I know some who say the same about DUMBO locals at the extreme opposite end of the socio-economic spectrum. Too bad the police can't come and remove them, eh?

... and back on topic: as of this morning the triangle is looking great!

I'm glad others find them to be aggressive. And it's true- I try not to go into Peas and pickles or walk on the same side of the street when the lady is with her husband.
I think people should definitely respect them, but not give them money. If people cut off their funds, they would leave the area.

So what's the couple's story? They certainly seem capable of doing something other than spending the last 2+ years in front of Peas & Pickles...

311 is not going to work. We should mention it to the owners of Peas & Pickles. They are definitely losing business with people like Girl1 and myself shopping elsewhere to avoid the harassment. I suggest that everyone else do the same thing and highlight this to them.

As for the guy outside the F train - if he's sitting on the steps (as he invariably is) then he's on city property right? so the cops must be able to move him.

Pete - you're right, they're perfectly able bodied and seem to be reasonably well educated. The fact is, we live in a society and we all have a responsibility to contribute to that society.

This is getting far off topic but I disagree with this statement:
"The fact is, we live in a society and we all have a responsibility to contribute to that society."

Can you explain how you came to that?

As a liberal, I do think that we have a shared responsibility for the place in which we live. I'm happy to pay local taxes, support our shops and take part in community events.

Panhandling though, seems to me a very selfish way to live, given that there are more contributive options available (the Doe Fund being a wonderful example). 'Pal' was correct in the other thread to draw the distinction between the homeless and panhandlers - in other words between those who are genuinely in trouble and need our support, and those who have the ability to do better.

I'm happy to do those things as well and encourage it. I would like everyone to feel an obligation or responsibility to it as well but I can't impose it. Declaring it as fact doesn't make it so. Watch this:

The fact is, we live in alongside many lifeforms and we all have a responsibility to live in a way that doesn't harm others.

That's a fine sentiment, right? I think it's hard to argue against "do no harm." But how many ethical pacifist vegans (or other lifestyle that fulfills the above) are out there? Doesn't everyone who isn't "have the ability to do better"?

By the way, I'd bet our politics mostly agree. And I'm not vegan; I love locally made cheese too much.

... yeesh, I should be working.

I love how everyone who moves to places like Dumbo and the LES try and pretend that there aren't PROJECTS simply a block away.

Newsflash- Government Housing isn't going anywhere! When you turn 50 and still live in your "luxury condo" there will still be Section 8/thugs/panhandlers/etc... right next to you. They live generation to generation inside those buildings within a system that only encourages more unwed pregnancies and other acts of social deviancy.

I'd sell now while there is still a decent market in NYC to some other sucker who wants to live next to a freaking project next 30 years of their life.

There are projects throughout Manhattan and Brooklyn not just Dumbo and the LES. Some of the most expensive housing in Manhattan is in Chelsea right next door to the projects. This is a fact of life in the city. So if we're all in it together, we have to look out for each other and ourselves, and the city government has to have infrastructure in place to keep at bay. It's up to the residents in each neighborhood to work together to keep their small part of the city beautiful and thriving, which brings us back to the original topic of this thread: the Pearl Street Triangle Plaza.

enough with all of the nonsense -- i have lived in dumbo for many years, long before it became the place it is today, and my opinion is...the freaking bums must go. they are harassing and oftentimes downright nasty and mean. police and politicians will do nothing. only way to achieve this goal is to stop giving them money. if the well runs dry, they'll dig somewhere else. spread the word. heck, put up a sign.

Here's a solution. Don't give them money, give them a subway ticket instead. Then they can get themselves to whatever shelter/soup kitchen/liquor store they need to go to, and leave our neighborhood alone

Just a few observations from a newbie:

1) Bugaboos are actually the best thing going for someone with a baby. Sure they cost, but buying a pram and an umbrella stroller (bugaboo is both) would cost almost as much and you need flexibility in the city (cabs, cars, subway). Besides, they are vital for navigating the cobblestones on the way to the parks.

2) I have never felt threatened by the panhandlers in DUMBO.

3) I have never heard of panhandling as being a good thing for a neighborhood.

4) I am a yuppie but I am not a hipster. I don't own $200 shoes.

I'll admit I don't care much about helping the panhandlers but I pay enough taxes that the City should. I don't understand the intense hatred by some on this board. Live and let live, people.

um - jason (11:13)....

"unwed pregnancies and other acts of social deviancy"

bro - that crap is not okay.

Why do you think panhandlers are bugging people outside Peas and Pickles? Because the customer have money!

Panhandlers always show up where the money is.

You Yuppie f**** brought big money into DUMBO and now you complain about the results. Typical.

Giuliani and Bloomberg have chased most of the homeless off Manhattan, so where did you think they'd go?

The best thing going for someone with a baby is a sling not a sidewalk SUV.

A sling? I'm not a woman.

Sidewalk SUV? You don't know what you're talking about. Don't give me this stroller-free zone crap. I have every right to exist in the city, same as you. So does my child. Deal with it!

I don't understand the crazy hostility. Why do people care what stoller I buy? Don't blame me for the rising prices (hello - this close to Manhattan, what'd you expect?). If you must, try blaming Walentas- he got my money. And I'm not complaining about the panhandlers, but how is panhandling my fault?

Totally agree with you, New to DUMBO. You'll be seeing me with my Bugabo in the neighborhood, too.

A sling is not a something you can use all the time, and it doesn't last for very long. It's nice if that's what you use, nest but you don't need to slam the rest of us for using a normal-sized stroller. Bugaboos are no bigger than any other stroller. It's not like we're all running amok with double wide loads and 2-liter cup holders.

We all have to live together in a very small neighborhood and a lot less judgement from everyone would be refreshing.

The only possible reason for having a sling.. is that you can't afford a decent stroller. If so, that's absolutely fine, just don't blame it on the rest of us.

Like it or not, Dumbo's demographic is being transformed from a bunch of rabid panhandlers and vagabonds to a collection of nice, clean, SUV-driving, tax-paying, law-abiding, stroller-pushing, respectable folk. Now what could be wrong with that??

bugabos are nothing but a new way to show off your social status b/c you can't drive around in your fancy car very easily in nyc. you people are a bunch of privileged a******.

Back to the fun stuff:
I had to run a grab a cop one day because this severely cracked up dude, let's call him "Smokey", in front of P&P, was beating the woman he was with. (Let's call her "Cracky"). So the cop took Cracky and Smokey and walked them down to Starbucks, then left. Then Smokey want right back at her.
And what about their buddy "Rocky" who starts screaming "A LITTLE HELP!!!!!!!!!!" at the top of his scorched lungs when he feels he's not getting enough drug money from those hateful yups (who have the audacity, the unmitigated gall to have jobs and children. And shoes. And strollers!).
My fave though is the little Dickens character who asks for money, and as you pass her by, rightly snubbing her, she says "God bless you anyway", implying: a. You believe in God, and b. God will seriously consider not blessing you unless you give her a quarter.
Ahhhhhhh, Bumbo.

Lol. Here you have it. The Dumbo type.

"KB Says:
July 3rd, 2007 at 9:49 pm

The only possible reason for having a sling.. is that you can’t afford a decent stroller. If so, that’s absolutely fine, just don’t blame it on the rest of us."

By the way, my daughter is 33 mos. and both my wife and I still use the sling exclusively. Guess what, when we are out in the sling, we have conversations and sing and play word games and generally interact while we go all over the city. I see all these kids in their strollers staring into space while their moms yap into their cell phones.

Also, we make plenty of $ (100k+), though not rich and the lack of stroller is in fact a choice, so stuff it up your trunk yuppie housefrau.

And to the dude who isn't a woman, and can't thus wear a sling. Your masculinity can't survive a little cloth sash?

You know the truth is I don't mind the strollers, and certainly we've all got the right to our own little piece of turf on the sidewalks, (not that people with strollers seem to want to share) but I do mind the mentality of people who think they are the ones who in fact get to decide who gets to roll, sling or stand there.

I spit on the ground every time you walk by.

My theory is that 'nest' is actually one of the homeless people, who has managed to sneak into an internet cafe somewhere.

What else explains his love of slings, if not that a proper stroller won't fit in his cardboard box under the bridge?

'85adamsisapimple' - very amusing story, although what a shame scenes like that have to occur in our neighborhood. You're right, they belong more in a Dickens novel than the bright, shiny new Dumbo that we're striving for.

The best solution that I can see, is to turn Dumbo into a GATED COMMUNITY. We could put up security checkpoints along Bridge St., under the Brooklyn Bridge and along York St. Maybe impose some kind of dress code while we're at it.

Keep up the good work people of Dumbo - a few more years and our property values will be sky high!

As the person who supposedly ignited this row, I'd like to point one thing out.

I haven't seen those Dumbo bums since we started the debate on this blog! Have the Dumbo bums been reading our posts? Or perhaps they're actually too busy contributing! Plasma? nest? Publius?

There's another Dumbo baby on the way who is going to have both a sling and a stroller (which will probably be a Bugaboo). There is no way I would buy a stroller because it is a status symbol, in fact that is a big turn-off for me. But the fact that it's essentially two strollers in one is a big selling point, not to mention the fact that it can handle the cobblestones in Brooklyn much better than a Graco.

Whether my husband and I are using the sling, or pushing a stroller we will try to take up only as much space as we did pre-baby and we hope you won't spit at us because that's just gross and not such a great example to be setting for your sling rider, nest.

KB, you're not looking hard enough. One of them was relieving himself on the wall of the York Street Station the other day while another was picking through the garbage. And at least one member of the Peas and Pickles couple was hard at work on the 4th.

I, for one, don't think human waste adds that much to the "character" of the neighborhood.

Nest, Does the fact that I paid more in taxes than you earned last year entitle me to sidewalk space for my stroller?

anon - I think you'll find it was Nest who was peeing on the wall of York Street Station

way to be self righteous nesty sling man. you're better than all of us "stoller" people, chatting on our phones, barrelling down the sidewalks. And what's with "33 months?" just say almost three.

I used to have a sidewalk SUV, now I have a sidewalk HUMMER. And I'm going to run you all down with it this summer.

Seriously though, who would like to make Dumbo a gated community? I think we should push this. who's with me?

you people are all morons.

I apologize for urinating on the York St station. I won't to it again.

Incidentally, please give me some change. I want a beer.

I'm in favor of a gated community. Maybe we should start a petition?

yikes.

be cool all.

Does anyone know why Jan Larsen is an authority on, or involved in, everything going on in DUMBO? Is this guy an art dealer? A neighborhood know it all? Or both?

so I went to Pedro's last night for a drink and saw one of the bums. Anyway, he was pestering customers and the kind lady behind the bar gave him a plate of food to keep him quiet. He then proceeded to SELL the plate of food to one of her customers for ONE DOLLAR!!

Will one of you bum-sympathizers explain to me how that is acceptable behavior??

Funny, I saw that guy too. He was stumbling around with a packet of chips and harassing everyone in sight. Charming fellow.

However, the big question is... who bought their dinner from the bum??!

Oof! Tough crowd! Where do I go if I don't like being panhandled but still think we ought to acknowledge that these people are human beings?

Hey nest,

Glad to know you're spitting at people right after the fun conversations and word games. Hopefully, you don't accidentally hit your slung child. If I see any singing sling-wearer, I'll take cover. My baby won't though because Bugaboos are impervious to saliva. They transform too.

Last thing: Maybe I was raised differently but when I am not carting my child (who I also interact with during the ride - you sure you're not noticing nannies?), I step into the street (heavens!) if need be to allow women and children to remain on their paths. Is that too provincial for you?

Oh, and perhaps the DUMBO homeless moved to Brooklyn Heights. My wife saw a completely naked man on Henry yesterday.

you guys fight over everything, just let be, one picks where to live, what to have and how to live and that is fine and we should all respect each other not fight over the most pety things. But i must say it is pretty amusing reading all this stuff, some of you need just need to let things slide. Live your lives as you wish.

stopfighting - I would love to live as I wish, unfortunately my ideal lifestyle does not include being harassed by bums every time I go to the shops.

Thats where all the live-and-let-live panhandler-apologists get it wrong. I'm the one prepared to leave everyone else alone and get on with my life, its those bums who are intruding on my peaceful existence.

Actually I was referring to the whole sling and bugaboo cart thing, I thought that was ridiculous. I don't want any bums either but you find them in almost every major city worldwide, so I guess they will never go away.

Hey! Why don't we organize a weekly "Bum Fight" at Gleasons? First prize is a buck. The opening event could be "Hipster Doofuses vs. Anyone With a Child". Loser has to give winning bum the buck.

My money's on Smokey in a fight - with a wiry frame like that he could dance all around the fat F-train guy.

We could call it Bum Club. The first rule of Bum Club is, you do not talk about Bum Club.

The first rule of Bum Club is - you do not talk about Bum Club. The second rule of Bum Club is - you DO NOT talk about Bum Club. Third rule of Bum Club, if a bum yells Stop!, goes limp, taps out, the fight is over. Fourth rule, only two bums to a fight. Fifth rule, one fight at a time, you bums. Sixth rule, no shirt, no shoes. Seventh rule, fights will go on as long as they have to. And the eighth and final rule, if this is your first night at Bum Club, and you have ever panhandled in front of Peas and Pickles, you have to fight.

Not sure how rule #6 will fit with Smokey's dapper sense of style.. I'll ask him next time I pop out for groceries.

I also think a gigantic bumfight free-for-all might be good once every month. We could set it in the Pearl Street Bumfight Arena (otherwise known as Triangle).

Absolutely brilliant. Finally, a solution to this bum problem. I'll bring the popcorn (from the dumpster of course).

we could call it the Bumbo Olympics.. and instead of the five interlocking Olympic rings, our symbol could be five styrofoam panhandling cups

i am crackey's bile duct

You CANNOT effectively change a community by imposing your own pristine capitol-based ideology or manifest destiny on a neighborhood that thirved long before you left grad school. You can only bring it to it's full potential by encouraging and developing the gifts and resourses that were already in the existing community, including its people.

Glad to see you've figure how to do that by turning the human beings who live next to you (yes, they do) into a f**ing rat baiting.
Onward intelligent debate over Smokey v. Fat Heroin Addict! You have my appaulse!

(pardon my enthusiasm, your right. Let's get back to discussing how to dump the problem...I mean "nuisence"... on a neighborhood not as fortunate as to be able to argue about slings v. f***ing bugaboo).

*sigh* - I take it you won't be coming to the bumfight then?

Score will of course be kept on the Bumbotron.

who's the bookmaker & what sort of odds are they laying on the match-up?

i'll take 4-1 smokey with the under on three rounds.

I actually spoke to the owners of Peas and Pickles about the problem over the weekend. They were very apologetic and said that they have asked the police to do something about it on several occasions, to no avail.

Upon leaving, I was assailed by the guy selling cheap plastic toys, begging me to "have a heart" and buy one of the wretched little trinkets he was thrusting in my face. With him and the "God Bless You" lady alternating shifts, Front St is starting to sound like an Evangelical convention.

Here's an idea though - maybe Peas & Pickles can be the sponsor of the Bumbotron?

tim - do you want to take the over on three rounds?

if Smokey's up against the F train guy, sure I'll take the over. Smokey's an unstoppable force, but the F train guy is an immovable object. It could be an epic.

ach! epic? you might be right.
but f-train might be packing the gout...
if smokey has been watching old tapes he'll know the big boy's weaknesses.
smokey in the 2nd. TKO.

our two gladiators need a rousing song to play as they march to the ring. I think Smokey's should be Wherever I Lay My Hat (That's My Home) by Paul Young.

Any other suggestions?

stop feeding the panhandlers, eventually they will go away.

Jan, Tucker Reed is a non-responsive moron whose priority is to cater to Walentas, so please spare us with the "he's so great" bullshit.

What about a cage fight between Boymelgreen and Walentas? They're already engaged in a huge pissing match, with a lot of weenie waving. Let's step it up to a deathmatch, winner takes Dumbo.

or even better:

Boymelgreen and Walentas.. vs .. Smokey and the F Train dude

The battle for Dumbo. Past vs Present. Dumbo vs Bumbo.

Lets take this gentrification war and settle it for all time with a glorious battle between old and new!

tim - now that's a tag team match-up i would pay big bucks to see. it wouldn't even be a fair fight! i say over/under on round #1...who wants the over???
can we get don king to promote it?

when the panhandlers ask for money give them walentas' address

who made the photo? its admirable.

Where have Smokey and Crackey gone? Have they been forced back to their condo by the biting cold? Or maybe they're too busy making dirty love in a garbage can somewhere.. I wonder..

BUUMMBBBOOOO !!!!!

I saw them outside Peas and Pickles on Saturday.

Did anyone buy Smokey a christmas present? Cologne anyone?