99 Gold Withdrawing Offering Plan, Turning to Rentals

April 25th, 2007


 99 Gold Street, Brooklyn, 3/31/2007 (Click for larger version)

After throwing a big opening party with free alcohol and food and an appearance by former NY Knicks basketball player John Starks last June at 99 Gold in Vinegar Hill, the Developer’s Group have decided to withdraw the offering plan on the building. The building will turn into a rental building but no word yet on prices. 99 Gold is joining 133 Water Street in turning rental. I’ve confirmed rumors from contract holders. One contract holder had this to say:

“There were 44 contracts signed – and another 11 being held back by the developer for friends and family. Our rep at Developer’s Group is pretty shocked as with a building almost 50% sold this almost never happens. The reason I guess is that many of the less desirable units were not moving and they didn’t want to risk bearing the cost of 40 unsold units after the building closed. We were told they decided that renting them would be more profitable in the long term.”

I thought the condos were pretty nice, had huge windows, and quality finishings. I hope the contract holders were treated fairly and didn’t have their deposits tied up for too long. One Dumbo-based realtor told me that they have many more buyers than there are inventory for Dumbo and Vinegar Hill, so they were a bit surprised with the 88-unit building not selling well. A commenter on Brownstoner had this to say about 99 Gold on March 5: “I bet this building will go rental b/c Developers Group can’t sell anything. I guess time will tell.” That person was right.


 99 Gold Street, Brooklyn, 3/31/2007 (Click for larger version)

{Any 99 Gold Street Updates?, March 2, 2007, DumboNYC}
{Dumbo’s 133 Water Goes Rental, April 9, 2007 Brownstoner.com}

Filed in Gold Street, Real Estate, Vinegar Hill at 12:00 am
Comments
  • DOT
    All I can say is... WOW. I'm just wondering why they didn't just offer the remaining units as rentals and allow the contract holders the option back out or stay? Now they're starting from scratch.
  • Other
    Its no real surprise. The apartment layouts are of a poor design, and its location is too unknown for people to want to buy. Renting is allot easier, and I'm sure they will rent most of them.
    Everytime I was at an openhouse at 99 Gold the brokers lied time and again that everything was selling fast in the building. Guess not.
    In regard to 133 Water Street, they are going rental because they know, based on the fact that they are already being sued by the owners in the Bridge Street building for water leaks, etc., there is much less risk to rent. If 133 Water Street was constructed by the Gutman Co. as poorly as the Bridge Street building then better to rent.
  • TWC
    It would be one thing if the Vista had trouble selling too but considering they are almost officialy sold out this just makes the Developers Group look terrible. Had the layouts been nicer and the prices more reasonable it would have done as well as the Vista. The inside of the building seemed pretty cool with a lot of potential but the execution was awful. What a shame, a great building in a up and coming neighborhood gets ruined by greed over price per square feet. Had they created nice 2 bedrooms ala The Vista at their price points this would have never happened.
  • RON
    I am/was a contract holder and I have to say that I had to find out via a third party source. The DG still hasn't called me directly. Their customer service is awful - I would advise anyone to avoid dealing w/them.
  • dumbostreets
    Also, there is probably an expanding and overlooked rental market in the area due, in part, to the hurry to get condos on the market the past few years.
  • anon
    I'm another (former) contract-holder, and I second the warning about The Developers Group (who haven't called me either). I should have trusted my instincts about them - slimy, unscrupulous, and actually terrible at their jobs. I remember thinking, "I wouldn't buy a used car from these people" - I definitely shouldn't have tried to buy a condo from them. The failure of selling out 99 Gold can be attributed to many factors, but the main one has got to be TDG. It's really a shame - I was so looking forward to living in this area, and that building in particular.
  • Anon
    I am also a contract holder. I think the developer HK Management Group need to be blamed here. Future buyers should be warned of HK Management Group and Developer's Group. DG basically will say anything to sell, and not to be trusted.

    I 've been under contract since last Oct, locked in a good price then when the market was slower. I never thought this would happen.

    Crazy!
  • r
    so someone has received confirmation that all contracts are being pulled and deposits will be returned?
  • r
    this is unfortunate. so did someone actually hear from TDG that all contracts are being pulled and deposits are to be returned? when?
  • anon
    HK Management is also currently destroying the historic building at 205 Water Street and have been accused (with some pretty convincing facts) of removing asbestos improperly and dangerously.
    The Developers Group handles several sleezy landlords' properties - Guttman, HK and others - in many neighborhoods.
    I bought from them and I agree with some of the others who posted here - they lie and provide terrible customer service once you put money down. Warn your friends.
  • Anon
    ALso,
    There lawyers fees, and other fees regarding loan that contract holders may have to digest now. It's not clear what the terms are?

    But the contract holders could loose thousands of $ because of this.
    And not to mention, some have sold their existing property already, thinking they were going to move.
  • It may be of little consolation, but there are condos in DUMBO as low as $540k for a 1br. If anyone who was in contract there would like to see what else is available anywhere in the area, I'm happy to help.
    Lindsay
    917.334.3348
    dumbocondoguide@yahoo.com
  • L.E.
    here'a thought - it won't solve all your problems, but if I had bought at 99 Gold I'd consider the following:

    Negotiate with the developer a long term lease (5 - 10 years or however long you reasonably thought you wanted to live there) for the apt. you were going to buy at very low rents - rents low enough to compensate you for your losses.

    You still get to live in the apt. you wanted for 5 to 10 years or whatever you negotiate - so you don't have to find somewhere else to live - and you get some of your money back in free or below market rent.

    I would also negotiate a right to terminate the lease on 30 days prior notice in case you find something else you want to buy - they should be happy to do this because it's a below market rent deal for a long term and they should be able to get more for it. And maybe the market drops a bit and you can buy something else you really like at a better price.

    sincerely,

    L.E. not I.E. and not Isaac
  • Dan
    I wouldn't be surprised if the developers are just planning on renting out the building until they can do a conversion that will get the (inflated) prices they wanted this time around.
  • Not surprised
    I'm not surprised at all. I walk by 99 Gold every day from the bus stop to the F, and I'd never live in that location, "just steps away" from a set of truly brutal housing projects. The stories I hear from neighborhood residents on the bus about what goes on around there are pretty shocking. A friend of mine is a teacher at the elementary school around the corner, and she agrees that the whole area around the projects is basically a war zone.
  • Anon
    The contract holders have not been notified of cancellations yet or received our deposits back , but the developer has already listed 99 Gold for rent. Click below:

    http://www.aptsandlofts.com/index.cfm?page=deta...
  • Kansas Cattle
    The scoop - I was an owner at The Smith Gray building in Williamsburg...another HK fiasco where Howie Klaus, the developer, made promises to all the buyers...promises that they didn't keep. They are sub-par builders of sub-par product. the condos at smith gray leaked, we could hear the neighbors cough because they built paper thin walls, and everyone in the building tried to sell shortly after moving in. Buyers or renters of any building built by Howie Klaus beware. He builds crap.
  • Brooklyn Renaissance
    any former 99 gold contract holders going to look at oro? i am intrigued by that building.

    there are also a few bigger units remaining at jcondo - 6 i think.
  • a
    $3100 for 823 sq ft! Wow. I guess I feel pretty good about my $4000+ for 2000 sq ft..
  • DOT
    Looks like they are going to be just as outrageous with their rental asking prices...
  • longtermresident
    I was at the openhouse on Sunday and they were still trying to sell the spaces. Very odd. Yet another project where TDG screwed over the buyers.
  • .......
    #1..all of you need to be ashamed of yourselves..
    #2..every one who thinks that only TDG is responsible, needs to understand a little more than just "oh, I am going to BLOG"
    #3..the developer, and only the developer, has the authority to withdraw, at any time, the plan to abandon said project
    #4..that the name "THE DEVELOPERS GROUP" coincides with actual developers, doesn't mean shit against dumb and uninformed buyers, bloggers, and bandwagoners..
    #5..to rent or to buy...hmmm, developers have a choice..to rent now and save on millions of dollars, let alone make, because of the tax brakes of rental first, then switching to condo later, makes total sense..
    #6..buyers are always screwed..hey, you know the price..the features, the amenities..the whole shebang..not one person can twist someone's arm to purchase..the buyer, and only the buyer, buys..period..(not end of story..)
    #7..Lindsey..show me a condo for $540k in dumbo, please..lowest so far is $660k at 85 adams..look for it..it will be gone faster than your BM tomorrow morning as you all sit on the can and contemplate your boring blogging futures..,.
    all of you, get a life, get a new job, and last but never the least, get off of the R.E. companies, and refocus your attitiudes towards developers, politicians, and just the plain fact that New York is a beast..and you live here..
  • anon
    Sounds like an employee of the Developers Group is unhappy getting smacked around on web postings. As the sponsor of the project, DG is investing it's reputation in the developer. From the responses of people on this blog, as well as other blogs and discussions boards, it is clear that DG has poor judgment. Your reputation continues to be as a sponsor of low quality developments and poor customer service/support.
  • Surprise surprise? What the hell do you people expect? This is what can happen when you buy speculative new development in a decllining market. You all should have considered buying resales...at least that way you know what your getting...and once that contract is signed...it's more or less a done deal. I'll tell you who I am. I'm a knowledgable and sophisticated real estate agent who routinely protects foolish and inexperienced buyers from this kind of disaster. It's sad that so many of the victims in this tradgedy are the same people who think they know more than I do...who routinely try to screw me out of deals...and take advantage of my time...to get what they think is a "better deal". Guess what? If you guys had the guidance of an experienced professional this wouldn't have happened. A good agent would fully inform you of all the risks and advise you against buying a shady new development on the border of a ghetto...in a declining market. So sick and tired of self-righteous know it all buyers...thinking they don't need brokers. Bad brokers? Sure. Plenty of them. You don't need them. But, a smart buyer knows how to find his or her way to a good honest broker. Such individuals are rarely victimized like the buyers at 99 Gold. None of my buyers took this hit. Not on my watch. I guess there is a real estate god after all.
    JohnQBroker.
  • dumboguy
    "Such individuals are rarely victimized like the buyers at 99 Gold"... such few new development buyers are rarely victimized like the buyers at 99 gold... by the tone of your post i wouldn't trust you...
  • TWC
    JohnQBroker really did a sweet job of putting brokers in a good light. His "knowledge" and "sophistication" was very apparent when he referred to us "sitting on the can".
  • .......
    "JohnQBroker"...well, as experienced as you are and sound..you really look like an idiot.."ghetto"? did you really say that? are you that idiotic to even mention anything about any neighborhood involving something as low class as what you called "ghetto"?
    has any one even been there? do you know what an actual ghetto is? why don't you tell me/us about what is a ghetto, what does a ghetto comprise of, how does it affect local residents that do not want to be next to something like that...hmmm? mr. fair housing steering, rascist little f*ck that you are?...can you really show me an area in NYC that has all the surrounding "fences", warding and keeping out the "unwanteds"? you dum ass Q..i hope your classist buyers..on your watch, are not as anti-semetic in such a demostrative way that you couldn't even get you schtoop up..
    keep playing with your keys..you couldn't even sell a new developement, even if it were your own newborn..though you would still call it a "resale"...get a job...selling bullshit...you are very good at that..(not the end of this)
  • you're funny
    "I’m a knowledgable and sophisticated real estate agent who routinely protects foolish and inexperienced buyers from this kind of disaster."

    That's funny. Isn't that your job? For you to speak the obvious reeks of the idea that you're probably not doing it well. But what do I know. I'm just a buyer.

    And as a sidenote, TDG is not the only one responsible for 99 Gold goingn rental. But I will say that walking into that office was like walking onto a used car lot, only no one wanted even to talk to you without an appointment. I'll keep my my millions.
  • JohnQ here. Yes I did use the term "Ghetto". So what? For all concerned...I grew up very close to 99 Gold and know a hell of a lot more about this area than my ridiculous and politically correct...know nothing about Brooklyn...yuppie detractors. (Not the end of this). Sounds like there are a lot of wounded gold rush yuppies on this blog here.
    P.S. yes...many of the buyers vicitimized by TDG/99Gold...are the same kind of self righteous Yups on this blog...so many of you think you are a lot smarter than you are. I don't care if it's politically incorrect to say it...you fools need a good broker.
    JohnQBroker
  • none
    johnQ, just so I get this straight, you would refuse a 6% commission on a $1,000,000 sale at 99 Gold so as to consider yourself honest?

    A client says, hmmm, you aren't finding me what I really want so I think I'm going to go buy with another broker. Unless you know of something on Gold street in DUMBO with a basketball court. You are going to say, "Nope, don't have anything to show you. I must protect you from the 'certain disaster' of buying at 99 Gold. Bye bye. Bye bye $60,000 commission." Why can't I picture that.

    In the age of the Internet, brokers as they currently operate are somewhere between useless and totally marginalized in added value. The one-time transactional relationship structure and massive commissions available for simply being a warm body at the closing heavily incentivize really bad broker behaviors, especially deal making at all costs.

    Real estate brokers should be paid like real estate lawyers. Few thousand dollars flat fee for a dozen hours of due diligence, personalized guidance, and expert oversight. That would thin out the vast masses of useless and unscrupulous brokers that now characterize and besmirch the profession.
  • anon
    6% comm is not standard on a new development--that is probably why JohnQ would direct you to a 6% re-sale. 2% is the norm for new development with about 1/4 going to the broker who sold the unit.
  • Goldrush Yuppie
    Gosh! What a lot of anger! Some folks just don't like middlemen like brokers, but a good broker is worth her weight in some precious metal.

    In my experience, offering plans for new buildings clearly state that if X% of units are not sold by Y date, the developer can choose to withdraw the offering plan. Which is apparently what happened here. Caveat att-emptor.

    So, you write your big fat downpayment check, and have it sit in an escrow account for months and months, and you don't renew your rental lease and couch-surf for what you assume will be a month or two... And then you read on a blog that your apartment is no longer your apartment. You'd be disappointed and angry, especially if your questions about progress are met with reassurances or silence.
  • Me
    Goldrush Yuppie, thanks for the only intelligent comment on this blog. All developers are allowed this contingency clause in their offering plans. 99% of the time a bank won't underwrite any construction loans without it. Just because you're buying an apartment through a broker and have an attorney doesn’t mean that you're excused from doing your own due-diligence on market conditions and the terms of the agreement. Either way, if you're willing to drop almost $1 mil on an apartment in Brooklyn, across from a Con Ed plant you either love Brooklyn or you love Cancer...
  • JH
    I personally love cancer...but that's besides the point...

    to put this into context: i don't own, nor was i planning to own, nor do i intend to own any property in dumbo. I'm just reading along at what everyone has to say...

    And I just find it interesting that JohnQBroker didn't give his/her real name. You sing your praises as a great broker, but don't follow-through and provide the one fact needed for someone to do their own due diligence and see if you are what you say you are. Just an observation.
  • ...
    The buyers of 99 Gold would have been in trouble when it came time to secure their mortgages had the offering plan not been withdrawn. A buyer cannot obtain financing on an apartment purchase in a new building that is under 50% sold. This is one of the big risks when it comes to speculative real estate.

    That said, I feel bad for all the contract holders. This news must be very disappointing. The building seemed a little problematic, but I never would have expected this to happen.
  • JohnQBroker here****
    Let's set the record straight. Apparently, many of the goldrush yuppies on this blog don't understand the existing commission structure on residential real estate transactions in NYC....new development or resale. A real pathetic lack of knowledge for individuals who are so quick to crucify brokers as leeches/warm bodies who do not represent value added to an ignorant and arrogant Yuppadelphia buyer. An agent repping a buyer on a new development deal would get 50-70% of 2-3% of the gross purchase price. The exact same formula applies for resales. Further, as to wheter an honest broker like myself would sell a buyer down the river just to collect 15k-18K on a $Million transaction?
    Hell f*cking no. I've never done it and I never will. If you backtrack this blog, you'll notice that I've managed to refute every stupid comment and angry dart that was thrown my way. Sadly, it was easy because this blog is the bastard child of Yuppadelphia. Lastly, you're godammed right I'm not going to post my name here. The last thing I need is for some bitter gold rush yuppie to send me a bunch of hate mail My words and thoughts should be sufficient evidence to indicate that I'm a opinionated pro...not a thief. Take the comment found above "In the age of the Internet, brokers as they currently operate are somewhere between useless and totally marginalized in added value." The asswipe quant jocky who wrote this doesn't even know how the commission structure works in NYC. Notice, he won't dare respond to this utter condemnation. He'll just vanish back into the swillish world vente' latte' that he came from. Here's a suggestion...why not try knowing what the hell you're talking about before you bash brokers or anyone else for that matter? Go back to Yuppadelphia!
  • JH
    Well, regardless of any of the real issues here...with or without knowing your identity, JohnQBroker...the inanely unprofessional vitriol you've spewed on here is enough to steer me clear of you. No matter how correct or accurate you might be...Name-calling? Hurling usless insults? It's childish. I'm shocked you probably don't realize how hypocritical you sound. Anyways...thanks for the entertainment!
  • Please do not use the comments to flame others. That includes developers, real estate brokers, and other readers. It doesn't contribute anything and it cuts off real dialogue between people in the community. We're all neighbors; let's try to get along. This site is only a blog so don't take it or yourselves so seriously please!
  • eric
    Hey JohnQBroker,

    Why don't you post your REAL NAME here so we can all know who you really are. If you are such a fantastic broker, as you say you are, then there should be no reason to hide behind a screen name, right? You will get new clients based on your thoughtful postings here. I bet you anything that you won't post your REAL NAME here. Prove me wrong and let's see if you will reveal your real name and not hide behind such vitriolic and unprofessional language.
  • JH
    um, that's what I just said.
  • eric
    sorry JH if i caused you any distress. i didn't mean to steal your thunder. you get a credit and a gold star for saying it first! everything ok now?
  • aytray
    Just looked at an apt in 99 gold this week (july 22). Agents are still trying to rent out half the place. They want a lot of cash up front. maybe they need the dough?
  • Maybe Still Looking
    I am very close to renting @ 99 Gold... until I read all of this. You've all given me second thoughts.
  • Maybe Still Looking
    I should add that I am fine with the price for the apartment I have picked out and I am not worried about TDG.

    My concern is my girlfriend staying with me and its proximity to the projects.

    Can anybody lend an opinion to the current status down there?
  • Front St. neighbor
    I don't think it's a bad building, but the prices so seem quite high. Perhaps the reason they're having trouble renting all of the units is the same reason they had trouble selling them in the first place - they're charging too much.

    I was worried before we moved into our place down the block a after reading comments like the "war zone" one earlier on. If you're worried from a safety point of view, you don't need to be. It's quite over here, but not at all unsafe on Front Street.
  • Maybe Still Looking
    Thanks FSN. I have heard the same from friends in the Brooklyn but not in Dumbo / VH.

    I am curious are you between Gold and the Bridge or Gold and Hudson?

    Thanks so much for the input.
  • old timer
    Hey Maybe Still

    About the neighborhood, I've lived east of Jay for over ten years and it can be intimidating for single women to walk past those projects. She will almost certainly be harassed verbally if she's alone, but nothing else has happened to anyone as far as I know.

    I am a big supporter of the neighborhood, and I like living here, but that location makes it difficult to avoid walking on York, which is where the issue will be.

    That's the simple truth in my experience.

    Hope that helps.
  • Dan
    I live just a block away from 99 Gold, between Gold and Bridge. I agree with FSN-- the neighborhood is perfectly safe (though note that I am a single male, and that the perspective of a single woman may be different). The only catch is that because there is so little foot traffic in the neighborhood (especially if you are moving from Manhattan), at night the emptiness can definitely feel creepy. That is something you will definitely have to get used to. In response to Old Timer-- if you just walk down Front Street to get to 99 Gold (that is where the entrance is anyway) instead of down York Street, you can avoid walking past the projects. It may seem odd since the two streets are just one block apart, but there really is a difference between Front St and York St.
  • Front St. neighbor
    I totally agree with Dan's post. There is a huge difference between Front and York streets and if you stay on Front Street you will be fine. It seems strange to say that the neigborhood is really safe when York Street does feel sketchy, but there is a huge difference between Front and York streets and not much reason at all to have to walk along York.
  • local
    hey scaredy cats: you're all gonna have to walk on york street and right through the 'war zone' because that's where your polling place is.

    do the housing projects in hipper parts of manhattan trigger this (racist) brand of fearful nonsense too?
  • angie
    There's nothing racist about these worries. That short walk is a serious downer on 99 Gold. Developments like 79 Bridge and 50 Bridge are just one block in the right direction, but in terms of safety they feel like a whole world away.
  • Maybe Still Looking
    Rascist? Ha, ok Local. I'm not going to waste my time defending myself on that one.

    If I take the place @ 99 Gold I will walk down York from the F every night. My *rightful* concern was / is for for my lady, and you've all made me feel a bit better about it.

    Thanks Old Timer, Dan, FSN, and Angie...
  • Front St. neighbor
    Local, you're such a jerk. No one has made any hysterical comments regarding York Street. It's just common sense to avoid it if possible, especially if you're a woman.

    Since I've lived here I've met a few people who have had family members living in Farragut over the years and they all vehemently hate those projects. They warned by to stay off York Street and I listened. That said, I'm not going to strap on a helmet or cry if I have to pass through there, but I'm not going to be careless about it either.

    Front Street has a bit of a deserted feel at night, especially since a good portion of the block is taken up by the JW parking lot. But I do see police cars patrolling the area and the JW shuttle bus passes by quite often. Also with the busy Jay St. intersection there are people around well into the evening. And there are usually a few people out walking their dogs.
  • local
    wow...struck a nerve huh?
  • Ed
    My comment on the nighttime safety issue in Dumbo, and all of NY for that matter, is that you simply go where you see people who look like normal law abiding folk and along open businesses. Obviously, on and near Front St. you'll find more of those. Be alert & savy. Ladies especially, consider waiting a bit and and walk with or near someone you feel comfortable with in those more isolated areas...Dumbo is great - just don't be dummo.
  • Ed
    New Subject:

    What bugs you about Dumbo? Overall, I love it, but...

    1. The Watchtower Parking Lot along Front and Main. Every time the gate opens to let a car in and out a Beep/Buzzer goes off. The driver then gets out of the car to turn it off. All day/nite long this goes on. If you live nearby its a bit of a PIA.

    2. Car alarms. Overated!! I called 311 once to file a report on one that was going on and off for weeks! Was told it takes 7-10 days to investigate! WTF??

    3. Starbucks. If I have to pay $5.00 for a cup of coffee then I demand more free samples-damn it!

    4. Polite beggars. We have some nice ones around here. I can't say no!
  • fejfek
    ed, there are NO polite beggars. the nasty, drug-addicted panhandler outside of peas and pickles must go. it's people like you, ed, that are ruining this neighborhood, with your douchebag pacifistic love of the drug addicts ("but they're people too" "but doesn't it make me cool and hip to give money to disease-infested junkies -- look at how liberal i am" "i'd rather have the junkies than the yuppies"). no, ed, wrong on all accounts. they are disgusting wastes of life who harass people all day long and they get quite nasty and rude if you don't play their disgusting, drug-addict, begging game. they have on MANY occassions verbally harassed and insulted my wife, parents, infant child and friends. i would like to stuff them into a rocket ship and blast their diseased asses to another planet where they can do no harm to honest, hard-working, law-abiding citizens.
  • Ed
    So, Pelfek, its people like me ruining this neighborhood? Pacifistic love of drug addicts? Blah Blah BS??-First of all, you don't know me or understand a little tongue in cheek humor. And for the record, I am not a liberal. Also, while I agree that they can be nasty or however you want to define it, yes, I do have compassion for 'some" of them who have had horrible lives and/or just don't get it. Rehabilitate or Exterminate? Guess we know your answer.
  • local
    yeah, like i said: racists.
  • dumbostreets
    The fact remains that Dumbo is in proximity of a large project.

    Rather than insult those who are down and out, dumbo businesses should actively coordinate with city social services, charitable organizations, and churches to develop a plan to address this in a constructive manner. Maybe Two Trees should hire social workers instead of build a school !!

    Dumbo is becoming a neighboorhood with real resources, so there should be a means to deal with this.
  • fejfek
    harassing, disgusting, mean, disease-ridden crackheads outside P&P must go!!! stop giving them money. if you want to give charity, go thru the proper channels. with that money you give them, they run right back to the housing project around the corner, buy crack and get blazed -- and that's the only time you don't see them out there, when they're getting high. so you are supporting illegal and dangerous drug behavior when you give them money. and also my wife and child have to get screamed at and borderline assualted everytime they try to peacefully pass by minding their own business. nice going, wannabe liberal, scaredy-cat douchebags.
  • Maybe Still Looking
    Wow this is funny, while looking for apartments I saw, and ignored this female crack head asking for $$ outside P&P.

    Just then some "honest, hard-working, law-abiding citizen" on the street said to me "Ya know shes actually not a bad person, blah blah blah."

    To which my response was,

    "Ok, then go ahead and give her your money. I work for mine, thanks."
  • tim
    BUMBO lives!
  • tim
    Forget Empire Stores - lets give landmark status to Smokey and Cracky. As the darlings of the hippie douchebag set in Dumbo, they should be immortalized in stone, Rocky-style, outside Peas and Pickles. Future generations will look at the inscription and read out loud, "My name is Smokey, king of bums: Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
  • adam
    the comments on this site are more and more beginning to resemble those on Curbed. it's a bit nauseating but I guess that site's doing okay so all the better for Hideyoshi.
  • Johnny Vinegar Hill
    I just rented and moved into a ground floor apartment @ 99 Gold Street. I become more alarmed every day that passes for the saftey of not only myself but my flatscreen as well. Does anyone have any color on the saftey of living within such close proximity of the Farragut Houses? I heard that someone was mugged at gunpoint a few weeks ago...can anyone confirm or deny?
  • you're funny
    adam,

    I agree, the comments here are getting pretty provocative. Perhaps those comments are reflective of the people making them? While I've never given any money to the panhandlers, I've never been or felt threatened by any of them. Maybe it's because I've been polite. Sadly, it seems like a novel concept.

    While it's true that there are often seedy folk in the neighborhood, I'd submit that you see the same types on 57th St., or in the East Village, SoHo, wherever. What makes it a little spooky is the lack of other people at certain times.
  • dorio
    Ed, for what its worth, I took your post to be humourous, and thought it was.

    fejfek, what are YOU on? If you espoused the same philosophy you do with less vitriole, you would have a much broader audience.


    local, i am guessing you are a man, right? It is definitely different for a woman to walk along York street than a man, as many of you already understand.

    See you around, neighbors.
  • Adam, I agree, some comments are starting to resemble some of the more immature ones on Curbed. The blog software already filters out certain profane words and deletes those submitted posts, so please refrain from using f*** or a**, unless you want your post to be swallowed up by filter software. 99% of the time, readers here are intelligent, funny, and passionate about the neighborhood, so I thank everyone here who participates and contributes to the discussions. (And all your emails too!). But on occasion, there are posters who may be critical of other posters. I consider blog comments as conversations; much like ones you may have with a neighbor on the street or in your hallway. So if I join in, I would be respectful of others, and would expect the same from them.

    I hate to do it and have been debating it in my head for a while, but I'm putting together a comment policy to remind everyone that hate, profanity, and personal attacks will be deleted (some automatically and some by me when I have time to do so). They lead to useless flaming and negativity. Constructive criticism is welcome...especially ones that I post :)

    Please don't take the comment policy as an insult, but more for reference when discussions get out of hand and negative.

    Sorry this is off-topic in the 99 Gold Street thread, but just wanted to respond to the thread that seems to be a hot topic. Thanks!
    -hideyoshi
  • Griff
    It's a real shame that there are some impolite, shock value posts being put up here.
    But I am also heartened to see some serious comments as well.
    My wife and I are in the process of moving to Dumbo, and were seriously giving some thought to 99 Gold
    However, from many of the posts here, it seems obvious that there is serious concern about the proximity of the projects, and the safety therefore of women walking alone at night.
    Although I wouldn't let my wife walk home at night along York Street, it has become apparent that to even discuss this implies that there is a feeling that it is dangerous.
    This has basically led us to not decide on 99 Gold.
    It is a shame, because the units are truly amazing.
  • Vinegar Hill Res.
    I think this has already been mentioned, but there is absolutely no reason you should have to walk along York Street if you live in Vinegar Hill. Front Street is more convenient, much safer, and it is the main thoroughfare to all of the housing up here, including 99 Gold.

    It's amazing that there is such a big difference between the characters of York and Front streets given that they're just a block apart. I hope that the condition of both streets will only continue to improve over time.
  • Johnny Vinegar Hill
    I understand that Front St has been deemed a "safe zone" by the residents of Dumbo/Vinegar Hill - but are the Farragut residents reading this blog? I made the mistake of going to pick up chinese food @ the restaurant on Bridge and York - quite and experience. I have never seen a bullet proof wall of glass in a chinese restaurant.

    Does anyone else on here actually live at 99 Gold? Awsome apartment outside of the fact that I have had to bring a contractor in to put up my curtains - drilling into concrete not as easy as it seems.

    Looking forward to constructive, helpful, and politically correct responses from my neighbors.
  • suck it
    Hey man, this is a message board, and people should be free to express themselves how and when they see fit. Website guy, are you going to start editing comments and shaping opinions the way you want them to appear on your blog? I think you'll find that's a recipe for disaster, and you will lose all credibility as the premier (probably only, but still premier) DUMBO blog. If you're going to provide an open forum, you ought to leave it just that...open and free from interference. If people don't like the opinions they read or the manner in which those opinions are expressed, they should feel free to either not read them, ignore them, or respond as they see fit. Is this still America?
  • bunchofpansies
    I agree with Suck It. It you don't like it, don't read it. It you don't want to hear it/see it/watch it then change the channel!!!
  • pansies suck it in bunches
    unfiltered message boards might get posts such as this one that are off topic which take away from the purpose of the site. these posts like pea and pickles street toughs should be removed.
  • adam
    well, that's right. people will start to ignore the comments and when that happens the site loses its interactivity and some of its appeal.

    so should the owner of the site step in and risk losing such intrepid contributors as 'suck it' and 'fejfek' or stay out of it and lose readership? then again, I may be making a false assumption there. crass sensationalism and ad hominem seems to do okay these days.

    'suck it' -- no, this is not America, this is a privately operated website on the internet.
  • another
    Adam is correct. This site will only lose hits as the discourse loses any sincerity. People want to read about DUMBO and the environs. That's way its called DUMBO NYC. You don't need to be a poet, but if its the same five or six people harping on the same thing over and over again, no matter what the original topic may have been, yeah that get's old.
    And it works both ways, if you feel like others on this site are too 'nice' to the local beggars, then feel free to change the channel, and read something else.

    So can we get back to 99 Gold, please!
  • angie
    All of this ignores the real point - that the panhandlers are the most serious issue affecting Dumbo right now. Should we brush it under the carpet in the name of political correctness? Or should we publicly express our thoughts? This blog provides a valuable service in that it highlights problems such as these and helps to build a consensus. It seems to me that Adam etc should help to find a solution to the underlying problem before they attack the symptoms.
  • Johnny Vinegar Hill
    ANYONE WANT TO DISCUSS 99 GOLD???

    ANYONE LIVE THERE??? I BEG YOU!
  • ASG
    I live there. It's a great place...quality apartments, great prices (relatively speaking, I just moved from Manhattan), awesome rooftop, and on the fringe of the neighborhood, which I like.

    Panhandlers, big deal, they're not even aggressive. That guy with the broken left arm, who I refer to as Lefty, is harmless as far as my experience. With that said, it can be a little shady at night, so we use Front Street, which has more foot traffic.

    Listen, the neighborhood is growing because it is affordable, good location, and has good shops...it'll just take a while before the fringe areas, like 99 Gold, become a little less shady. What should really be done is get rid of that impound lot, what a true blight.
  • almightyone
    ASG.....affordable? Hah!
  • ASG
    "relatively speaking"
  • adam
    I never suggested anyone not discuss panhandlers. The conversation turned to the recent tone of certain contributors, whether it's a bane to this website, and should it be moderated.

    I disagree that panhandlers are the most serious issue in the neighborhood but if people want to discuss it, go for it. How about doing so constructively? Proposing to pit poor people against each other in a degrading bout of physical confrontation and calling neighbors "douchebags" is not constructive.
  • suck it
    i don't care about anything any of you are saying. the simple fact is, these junkies are a problem, that's what fejfek was saying, and i agree, and there simply is no other place of which i am aware to discuss these issues, so get over it if we are clogging up your dumbass 99 gold street comments --who cares about 99 gold anyway, it's not even dumbo. and to those of you that think the crackies aren't bothering anyone, you're wrong. i personally know that they harass people every day -- the police are called to deal with them at least once or twice a week (why they are ultimately left alone is beyond me -- i watch the cops waive to them everyday, probably something shady going on there). i have been and i have witnessed MANY other people being harassed (and not just by asking for money -- i mean yelling at, following, getting in the face of and even spitting on people) by smokey (the guy with the "drug dealer" shirt) and crackey (the disgusting skinny woman, who is ther REAL nasty one of the pair) almost every day. trust me, it's happening all the time, and the cops do nothing. it IS a serious issue, and i don't think it should progress to the point where someone is actually hurt (either physically or emotionally) by these cracked out jackasses until we all say 'hey, these crackheads must go.'
  • Supply and demand
    suck it: People are mirrors for each other; it's no surprise at all that someone with your general disregard for others ("i don't care about anything any of you are saying", etc.) and brimming hostility is harassed by crackheads or by anyone else. Until we all practice respect - even for people we find "disgusting" - we cannot expect to be respected in return.
  • tim
    Supply and demand - so you're saying that due to the inflammatory act of walking down Front Street, 'suck it' actually deserves this treatment?

    I'm sorry, but no kind of perverted logic can be used to justify their actions. They are not homeless, they are certainly not needy, they show no respect to anyone and they are standing there leeching off our society and our neighborhood. As a previous contributor mentioned, should we really be expected to pay a TOLL to walk down that street?
  • thurston
    S&D: if "people are mirrors for each other", does that mean I turn into a nasty, dishevelled crackhead whenever I walk down Front St? I think not.
  • Johnny Vinegar Hill
    I say - we all meet after work today - with torches in hand. We gather as an angry mob and simply beat the bejesus out of anyone who is not a white yuppie, artsy type, or hipster. Watch out leftie and thin lizzy...the only crack you are going to get your hands on tonight is the one in the sidewald as we drag your sorry asses back to the ghetto where you came from.

    Then we can all head up to the roof deck at 99 Gold and cherish the fact that there will be no social argument to blog over tomorrow and maybe we can focus on something constructive.
  • Ariella Cohen, BK Paper
    Hi. I am a reporter for the Brooklyn Paper working on a story about DUMBO's panhandler population. If anyone is open to talking about their experience in the neighborhood, even anonymously, please contact me off line at cohen@brooklynpaper.com
    Thank you.
  • angie
    There's an excellent article on panhandling here, I think it sums up most people's views on the Dumbo bums too:



    Everyone who cares about this neighborhood should write to Ariella and express their view. Maybe with a bit of publicity we can solve this problem.
  • Vinegar Hill Res.
    "–who cares about 99 gold anyway, it’s not even dumbo."

    Not true. Vinegar Hill is as much a part of Dumbo as Fulton Ferry and it will only continue to be a more relavant part of the neighborhood as it contains the most properties that are ripe for development.

    In any case, to say "who cares" about a building and a block that are probably less than a two minute walk away from wherever it is you live in our tiny neighborhood is naive indeed, dear 'suck it'.
  • local
    dorio: i am not a man.
    i'm a woman who has walked york street comfortably for years. and john street. and plymouth, etc.
    i love to wait for the B61 bus smack in the middle of the projects.

    welcome to the neighborhood - where did you think you were moving anyway?
  • Vinegar Hill Res.
    local: I don't mean this to be as snarky as it will sound, but I would guess that your either slighly older or perhaps not a real head turner, or both. A petite woman or someone in her early 20s / 30s may indeed feel more vulnerable walking along York than some other women do.

    There is no denying that Dumbo encompasses multi-million dollar projects as well as some serious housing projects, but the neighborhood is far more upscale and pleasant than it is dire. I would guess that the majority of the people writing in this thread will be F or A/C train users who will expect and have a different experience than yours on the B61.

    "where did you think you were moving anyway?"
    We all have a different experience of the same place. Perhaps your view of Dumbo is that it's more marginal neighborhood than some of the rest of us experience it to be. With the beautiful waterfront parks, the great old buildings, quaint Belgian Block streets, and the upscale shops I guess I would ask you, where do you think you're living anyway?
  • local
    yay! vinegar hill res. : let's meet!
    then you will be able to accurately judge my size, age, & looks.

    shall we? pearl street triangle park? let me know when.
  • Hi Mr. Suck It,
    I agree with you. I will keep this blog an open forum, and it should be free from interference from anyone. But I never mentioned that I would edit any comments. I only stated that the blog software will remove any comments with profanity automatically (a standard feature that has been in place). Many blogs have a comment approval process where a moderator must edit and approve comments, but I don't have the time nor do I want to do this.

    Regarding the comment policy, I meant is as more of a comment etiquette. More of a suggestion, not trying to enforce anything. And to your question "Is this still America?"; America's censorship is much more strict than most other countries, let alone this website. But yes, you're free to state your opinion here as much as you'd like. We shouldn't take ourselves or comments here so seriously. Like I said before, it's only a blog!
  • suck it
    yes, it's only a blog, but it's the only real one we've got (and i think you've done a great job with it thus far), and we should remain free to express our opinions here when and in the manner in which we see fit -- if people don't like it, they don't have to read it.

    that said, i was verbally harassed by the crackheads again yesterday as they were leaving P&P to go back to projects and do their crack. and let me clarify something -- when i say "harassed," i'm not talking about the simple act of asking for money every freaking time i walk by (that's annoying, and i guess hrassing, but not what i'm talking about) -- what i mean is, if you don't give them money, they remember you and are actually nasty as can be whenever they see you after that. you know, it's one thing if you want to beg for money all day long to do crack; when it was just that, while i didn't like it, i didn't feel the need to rant and rave about it; but its another thing entirely to be nasty, harassing and intimidating to innocent people as they walk by b/c they don't want to give you money to go do more crack. and that's what these two jerkoffs do (actually, it's mostly skinny lizzie, or cracky, or the disgusting woman -- whatever you want to call her). that biotch is mean, mean, mean, and i warn everyone to stay away from her. when you're giving her money she seems oh so sweet with her "god bless you" and cracky little smile, but if you don't play her cracky game, she gets nasty. trust me all of you supporters-of-cracky out there -- try ignoring her once or twice and see how she reacts. the verbal harassment is bad, but at some point i fear it could get worse.
  • anon
    What about Black?..no one ever mentions him amongst our smoky denizens. He's mostly found up in VH but Ive seen him sleeping in Dumbo on occasion or lingering by the F stop on occasion. He has never been directly threatening but probably is the most menacing looking of the lot. He's bragged to me about how many armed robberies he's pulled and how b&e (that's breaking and entering) aint his game. At least I know my home will be safe. He's currently sporting a broken arm.
  • pww
    So, regarding 99 Gold Street, I haven't had any concern for my safety, and I mostly stick on Front, but also do york on occasion. The units are great (12" high windows on the 5th floor, with a view!, condo finishes, exposed columns, tons of light) and the price is reasonable, I would agree, relatively speaking. My rent per foot is about $40 per square foot... compare that to the $70+ you will have to pay at avalon bowery and chelsea landmark in manhattan, and the $60+ you would pay at 180 montague or $55+ at courthouse in Brooklyn (and 99 Gold's units are cooler, imho). The people I have met from the building so far are also terrific. A couple downsides... the proximity to the projects, the doormen, and the landlord seems to be the "grab every penny" type, which in the end is just business.

    I'm considering setting up forums, specific to the building, ie: coordinating fairway runs, basketball games, general building discussions. If you live there and think its an interesting idea, let me know!
  • Johnny Vinegar Hill
    PWW - I would love to have a forum just for the building. I get lonely playing hoops down there all by myself.

    I was thinking about inviting some of the new neighbors down to my place for cocktails...
  • BrainL
    Who wants to pay real money and live next to public housing? It's great if you like getting jumped on a regular basis...
  • Johnny Vinegar Hill
    FYI - this buildings management are a bunch of buffoons. I came home from work the other day to find an incredibly vague note stuffed in my door informing me that there had been an incident and that my peronal data may have been compromised! It simply said - you might want to call the credit agencys and let them know that your info may have been taken!

    As you can imagine I was incredibly concerned about this issue and went to one of the incredibly helpful door people. She informed me that a temp in the managments office has swiped ALL of the files in the building - but could give me no other color. Then she gave me the number for the building manager. Of what I could understand of his broken english - he had no idea what was going on. I asked what of mine had been taken - still no answer. Do they have any of the checks that I gave them??? Again - No answer.

    I then got a call back from the Detective handling the case and he told me that there was only some info stolen - and they had caught the woman who did this. Info was gone though.

    Are any of the other residents in the building disgusted with the way this was handled??? What if I was away and did not return in time to safeguard my personal accounts? What if etc...

    Very upsetting...

    Anybody else have any color on this???
  • sarah
    we have visited an appartment in Gold street on the 1st floor. i think the appartment # was 1k. It has a cellar in it. The appartment looks very nice but I was wondering whether the cellar would not be too difficult to heat in the winter. By the way, does the tenant pay for Internet and Cable, what about the heat?
    thanks
  • Johnny Vinegar Hill
    You pay for the heat - and the Doormen - who on two occassions this week I have caught completely asleep. I actually walked all the way into the apartment and left again and he did not wake from his slumber...Wish I got paid for that.
  • Tbone
    Wow, some people have some real anger issues! Yikes. I don't understand the need for rude, disgusting, insulting language on a community blog such as this one and I applaud the moderator for trying to discourage these types of postings. Don't take your anger out on the innocent people who want to have a lively discussion with their neighbors on a blog, try anger management classes!

    Anyway... there is a good discussion of the panhandling situation on the "talking about safetly in Dumbo" section of this blog. For those of you who are concerned about this issue, you should check it out. Bottom line is, even if you have been lucky enough not to be harassed or threatened or hurt by these panhandlers, there is a real risk to having this continue in Dumbo. These panhandlers have been a problem (even to those who are perfectly polite to them) and I encourage everyone to do their part to try and stop this. At the very least, DON'T GIVE THEM MONEY. We should all help the less fortunate, but there are better ways of doing that!
  • longtermresident
    johnny vinegar

    I am glad that you enjoy your apartment. I have been here for a while and honestly believe that despite what others think is horrible (the pjs), this end of the nabe is cooler. Don't let the knuckleheads on this website make you think otherwise. It's easy to be tough on a computer, I imagine they bitch on here because they don't have the balls to bitch in public and probably would get their asses kicked if they lived here. Rock on.
  • I totally agree with Dan’s post. There is a huge difference between Front and York streets and if you stay on Front Street you will be fine. It seems strange to say that the neigborhood is really safe when York Street does feel sketchy, but there is a huge difference between Front and York streets and not much reason at all to have to walk along York.
  • fafafooey
    The difference is mostly psychological my friend.
    Farragut don't discriminate.
  • It would be safer to walk on York. Contrary to the belief that most project people are criminals, most of them are law abiding citizens who as part of their societal upbringing simply enjoy "hanging out". I am white and have often double parked to pick up something in those bodegas. There is no sense of territorial invasion by any of these people unlike the Cassandras who live in Dumbo.
  • VH
    I can't believe I am going to write this...but...I have to agree with "LS". Yikes. Its safer to walk along York Street then Front. York is under 24/7 watch by the NYPD. Front, at night, is dark and empty.
  • Strange bedfellows huh VH?
  • BrooklynLove
    the prices in the grocery store on york near gold are surprisingly expensive. target is about the only place left in this boro where a box of corn flakes costs less than 4 bones.
  • fafafooey
    those grocery stores make money from food stamp fraud schemes
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